Why Worldly Standards are Superior

by metatron 5 Replies latest jw friends

  • metatron
    metatron

    Witnesses are accustomed to think that Watchtower generated rules would make the
    world a peaceful happy place. Let's examine that claim:

    Western nations are founded on the principle that individual humans have rights
    that governments must respect. What rights do I have under the Watchtower system
    of governance?

    If I am accused of a crime, a grand jury may have to decide if the accusation
    is valid - then I may choose to be judged by 12 of my peers in open court.
    None of this applies to the Watchtower's secret tribunals.

    The government must inform me of my right to counsel and give me legal representation
    if I cannot afford one. In Watchtower- land, legal counsel is forbidden, in writing,
    and may automatically result in my being 'found guilty', in effect.

    I have the right to confront my accusers and question them. As a Jehovah's Witness,
    you have no such right.

    I can reasonably expect that I can openly disagree with anything the government does,
    and that I can protest or seek to change it's policies - without having my citizenship
    revoked or being severely punished. The Watchtower allows none of this.

    In most enlightened nations, there is a presumption of innocence of the accused.
    Also, juries will be told they must be certain 'beyond a reasonable doubt'.
    Apparently, Circuit Overseers are telling elders to simply disfellowship
    people in cases where they have any doubt - the opposite! - and a notable change
    from when the Governing Body instructed erring on the side of mercy. ( Br. Sullivan,
    for example).

    I can worry about politicians preserving Social Security - or I can put my trust
    in the Watchtower rulership, which recently discarded a 120 year tradition of
    subscriptions because they are running out of money. They also got rid of most magazines
    on tape and large print editions that older people favored. Finally, it has often
    been observed that older Witnesses are simply told to 'depend on Jehovah' in their
    retirement rather the organization providing any material support. Which system seems more trustworthy to you?

    I can observe worldly leaders being exposed for crimes and moral lapses in an open
    society where the media is allowed to investigate and report such things. Does any
    of this apply to a secretive, closed organzation that endlessly brags about
    how 'clean' it supposedly is? And that counsels its members NOT TO PARTICIPATE IN SURVEYS
    THAT MIGHT REVEAL THINGS THEY DON'T WANT EXPOSED ( Kingdom Ministry & elder's letter).

    Isn't it obvious that the issue of child molesting exposed just how backward and
    inferior the Society's 'system of justice' is? That many have been forced into
    'worldly courts' because they had no other way to obtain justice?

    Would you really prefer the Watchtower to rule so they could organize mobs, Taliban
    style, and stone adulterers to death - along with anyone who disagrees with them?
    ( which equals 'apostasy', in their minds).

    If you can see all this clearly, why are you supporting them with meeting attendance
    and contributions? Is this the kind of tribal barbarity you like? Should judges be trained
    , independent professionals - or untrained, self employed, 'volunteers' acting with
    almost no oversight, even from the Society?

    I'm going to vote next month.
    I don't like many of the candidates but I still will vote with enthusiasm
    like some person who left a third world dictatorship behind.
    All because I can now appreciate what a system of injustice looks
    and feels like.

    metatron

  • Sirona
    Sirona

    Excellent!

  • freedom96
    freedom96

    The WTS is a perfect example of an organization which may have meant well from the beginning, got too much control, and now has gotten out of hand.

    Too much control is given from the elders up the ranks to the GB. Some of course, mean well. But in some people, if too much control is given, it goes to their heads, and they feel they are untouchable. We see this example with celebrities, and those in politics.

    Freedom just does not exist within the WTS organization.

    As described in the original post, if there was a country that behaved like the WTS, it would be the worst place to live. And yet, millions live in that enviroment every day.

  • No Apologies
    No Apologies

    another excellent post Metatron. Some months ago, my wife pointed out a 
    newspaper editorial where the writer compared living under the Taliban 
    to waking up and finding out Jehovah's Witnesses had taken over the 
    country. She could not understand the analogy. The more I thought about 
    it, though, the more I saw how accurate the comparision was. 
  • justhuman
    justhuman

    Nice post
    In the W.T there is no freedom. They only demand from their followers.
    Demand hours in the preaching work ,demand to bring new members, 
    demand to attend all their meetings(by the way did you ever think that 
    to do the necesary things meetings,preaching, preparing for the meetings
    , family study, ;you need 22 yours a week!!!). The Governing Body 
    has no obligations towards the rank and ;file, they only demand. 
    But they never apologize to the people ;for their mistakes. 
    Their mistakes they blame me it on them. Remember the generation that 
    will not pass away, 1975, 1942,1925,1919,1914.
    Always we are the ones to be blamed...They have make mistakes because they 
    are unable to tell what is truth, (does it take 150 years to find out what 
    is truth) 
    I doubt it. They don't have a clue what is truth...
     
    In democracy the ellected ones have to give account to the people.G.B NEVER gives account.
    In democracy you pay for your mistakes and you are forced to quit and even brought to justice for your corruption. The GB never quits.</P> 
    Since you become witness you have NO HUMAN RIGHTS
  • Deist
    Deist

    Excellent post by Metatron!

    I posted earlier concerning a different subject, but I am posting here as I think it is related. Here are my comments and opinions:





    For those still inactive, why not simply disassociate yourselves? According to their own spin doctors (see below concerning shunning former members), "Those who simply leave the faith are not shunned."

    http://www.jw-media.org/beliefs/beliefsfaq.htm

    Regardless of what the reality is, a person can be free from the mind control and manipulation. One shouldn't have to hide, fear phone calls, or fear answering the door because of pompous and deluded false prophets. Yes, some of these individuals end up being relatives, but you have the right not to be emotionally abused. Neither do they, so are you absolutely sure your departure in your own dignified manner can't draw "honest hearted ones" out sooner or later?

    There are legal ways to be protected from harassment and trespassing. Find out more by looking at your state's laws on the internet. If you are harassed, contact your local prosecutor or your own attorney. Once a person disassociates, the WTS has no reason to pursue coercion. Niether do they have the right to slander or libel such a person.

    Certainly, leaving quietly by "slipping away" is desirable to many because it has the appearance of being non-confrontational. But the chains are still there for the WTS to come to you. Disassociation does not have be confrontational either. You can simply state in a certified letter that you disassociate for conscience reasons. No futher discussion with them is necessary. This would be true, unless you really feel that you must go out, knock on doors, tell people how good JW's are and that so-called paradise is entitled for those who submit to the WTS.

    ************************************************************************

    Pathofthorns,

    In my opinion, the WTS would not be getting rid of you, rather the opposite... the luxury would be yours. At any rate, the issue here is freethought and freewill. Those who wish to shun you have a choice also. Make it inconvenient for them, then, to remain in the WTS religion. Moreoften, they immediately show their true colors, yet this is not always permanent.

    I respect your intent to maintain some sort of dignity in hiding, but in their eyes there is no dignified way to leave. What really matters are your eyes... and your time. I am sure there are many more decent and reasonable people in your community that would respect your distancing yourself from JW's regardless of how the few inside a Kingdom Hall feel.

    Humanity is not as bad as the WTS and other high-control groups try to make it seem.

    The WTS does not need to be reformed and can't be anyway. Why persist among the duped and deluded?

    ***********************************************************************

    J.W.S.

    You previously questioned in an earlier post:

    "Or would they interrogate my father as to my opinions and DA me themselves?"


    I apologize if you were offended by my posts. However, I feel that my comments were decent and were based on common sense. It is very sad that people unfortunately have to live in fear this way. Really, I am not naive about WTS or JW's. I simply think it is important to consider "risk" at times in order to more fully comply with ones own conscience. Sometimes one person's risk makes it easier for another. The fact that you state the above question about your father being interrogated would concern anyone who has alarm for mind control and abusive behavior. Are you sure that your family's love or care for you is that shallow?

    This question should not insult. I mean not to insult and, of course, you don't have to agree with what I have said. That the WTS engaging in this witch hunt of sorts in the next few months would alarm any decent human being.

    No, you really are not "free" if you fear interrogation for you or your family.

    Thomas Paine wrote: "Of all the tyrannies that affect mankind, tyranny in religion is the worst; every other species of tyranny is limited to the world we live; but this attempts to stride beyond the grave, and seeks to pursue us into eternity."

    ***********************************************************************

    Change from within?

    What value does the WTS have for humanity?

    Certainly, there is merit for reforming a valued institution and doing so from within. But the WTS is a so-called "theocratic" organization, not a democratic one in which good common sense and reason are used (or tried) to guide its participants. A democratic organization is not perfect and does not purport to achieve perfection, however, the nature of it allows and requires accountability of its members. Leaders of a democracy are limited in their terms and are, in effect, fired if they fail to perform or are corrupt.

    In my opinion, the idea that the WTS is even worthy of reform is ludicrous.

    To be sure, the posts concerning the subject: Review of Elders Course has been interesting and valuable. It is entirely possible that during the departure from the WTS and JW's, those doing so share insights, as Caspian has, to help other thinkers and to provide a protection for those easily lured into the WTS. But to attempt to reform something that is a deception from its inception or invention is futile and a meaningless waste of time.

    Thomas Paine wrote in his book, The Age of Reason:

    "We cannot serve God in the manner we serve those who cannot do without such service; and, therefore, the only idea we can have of serving God is that of contributing to the happiness of the living creation that God has made. This cannot be done by retiring ourselves from the society of the world and spending a recluse life in selfish devotion."

    The above written in 1794 by a person who greatly helped previously in the birth of United States was no atheist, rather he also opinioned while believing in the Creator:

    "...I have always strenuosly supported the right of every man to his own opinion, however different that opinion might be to mine. He who denies to another this right, makes a slave of himself to his present opinion, because he precludes himself the right of changing it. The most formidable weapon against errors of every kind is reason."

    Again, the question of reforming the WTS requires the thought of being relegated to perpetual mind control and silencing of opinion and true reason. Human beings have the capacity to act morally and decent without fear of eternal destruction or Armageddon. Individuals might act better if they were not told from "infancy" that "the inclination of the heart of man is bad from his youth up". Alternatively, folks might be more sincere in their actions if they weren't slaving for the WTS in an effort to gain a supposed paradise.

    Rather people would do better to consider:

    "Love your fellow man not because an ancient book tells you to, but because you feel it is right. Do what is right not out of fear of punishment, but out of the joy of helping your fellow man. Love God not so that God will do your bidding, but because you love the universe God gave you to explore. Die not so that you may be martyred or eternally rewarded, but so you may rest."

    ************************************************************************





    One person simply stated: "God exists, and there it lies." For those who believe in a Creator but abhor the mind control and hypocrisy of the WTS and JW's might consider this project I found: http://www.deism.org

    Best regards,

    Deist

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