DOES BELIEF IN THE BIBLE DESTROY ONE'S INTELLECTUAL CAPACITY?

by TerryWalstrom 35 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  jhine

  DJS , can I ask what you where your assertions about Christians being told what to read / consider come from ? Again I , as a long time member of the Anglican Church find that this is not the case . I am pretty sure that Catholics and other mainstream faith members would also dispute this statement . Yes many years ago Catholic Priests were quite authoritarian in their approach to their flock's spiritual welfare , but I don' t think nearly so much now and in all my years as an Anglican I have never even told my vicar what I was reading or thinking of reading unless I wanted to share something with him !

  It seems to me time and again that all faiths are tarred with the same brush by ex JWs . They are not the same .

  Jan
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  DJS

  jhine,

  They aren't my assertions. They are based on historical facts and current practices amongst lots of religious faiths, including the Dubs, many Fundamentalist churches, Islam, etc. If you will re-read my post, and I say the same thing every time, these studies - by individuals with doctorate degrees utilizing empirical methods - suggest correlations.

  For thousands of years religious leaders have used emotions to control the rank and file. Throw them a miracle, a bleeding Jesus, weeping Madonna, an old shroud or appeal to their emotions for a better life by promises of pearly gates, playpens full of virgins and pandas but not before eradicating all the bad people - or people you just don't' like. It may as well be opium for the control it delivers. Give them anything that will make them feel and avoid thinking or requiring evidence about the men behind the curtain.

  Appealing to emotions traps an individual driven largely by emotions and can even serve to hinder the growth of normally intelligent and rational people. And religion, any religion, is 99% emotional/irrational and 1% rational. In order to believe one has to ignore facts and bury one's head in the sand. Or just want to believe. Really, really want to believe.

  Again, these are not my assertions. They are based on facts and the socio-evolutionary progress, or lack thereof, of humans. This isn't rocket science jhine. These are predictable outcomes. If it doesn't fit your church right now in the year 2015, that is excellent. It means x-tianity, at least some of it, is evolving - which I have alluded to previously. But jhine, look in your rear-view mirror at the recent and distant past of your church. It isn't likely pretty.
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  CalebInFloroda

  In support of what DJS is stating...

  The study above and others like it show a correlation between Christian Fundamentalism and a lower intellectual quotient as demonstrated in rejection of accepted scientific paradigms.

  A "Bible-believer" is generally limited to this type of Christian because their doctrine is limited to a literal reading of Scripture to the exclusion of outside sources. This expression sometimes gets confused with others who read or also use Scripture, but it is limited to these others.

  The priest who first proposed the Big Bang comes from a religious tradition that not only discovered the expansion theory but accepts evolution and critical Biblical analysis. Catholics not only believe in Scripture but also a rich Tradition that actually shaped the New Testament while it was being composed and canonized.

  Judaism is similar. The religion of my people also came first before the Scriptures were composed and set as we now have them. This means they do not get read at face value as they also do not do in Catholicism. The Scriptures were never intended to be used outside of the liturgical and cultural world in which they were composed.

  "Bible-believing" Christians refer to members of Christianity that reject Apostolic Tradition and Jewish theology in exchange for a face-value reading and literal interpretation of Scripture. This formula requires an individual to ignore the historical development of Scripture and the intentions with which these texts came with. A life of confirmation bias is all you can entertain to do this successfully.

  Both the question raised by the OP and the comments made by DJS cannot be confused with a declaration that use of Scripture in itself limits the use of intellect. What is being said is that there exist religious approaches, Bible-only groups, which fit a pattern of denial that seems necessary in order to hold on to a theology that itself is far from being intellectually honest or satisfying.
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  never a jw

  Belief in the Bible or any supernatural force intervening in human affairs suppresses, limits, reduces, puts it sleep, but not destroy our intellectual capacity. Plenty of former believers have seen the light and adhere to the scientific method and reason. Rarely do you see a change in the opposite direction (from scientific minded to believer in myth)
  
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  DJS

  Jhine and Caleb,

  Numerous studies suggest the two most successful groups in the US, based on household income, are the Jews and Hindus. So religion isn't necessarily an impediment for success or intelligence, as Jews and Hindus, at least those in the US, typically rate high in overall IQ.

  There are several reasons for this. Both Jews and Hindus (US) have cultures that encourage higher education, and both of these groups are among the highest educated in the US. Also, both of these groups are more likely to view being a Jew or a Hindu as a cultural identity rather than a religious one. I date a Hindu and know a lot of Hindus; their tolerance for other religions is exceeded, a lot of times, by their lack of interest in all things religious. Of course there are religious Hindus, but even they are doctors, lawyers and indian chiefs.

  It is similar with Jews (sorry Caleb - you are the expert here, not me - I am simply quoting a dear friend of mine, which also is supported by studies). I have a very good Jewish friend who was one of my MBA profs. He has 2 doctorate degrees and is now a counselor at West Point. He keeps kosher, deeply respects his religion and its culture, traditions and legacy, won't date a non-JAP (Jewish American Princess when I asked) - and he is an atheist. He tells me this is common amongst US Jews. Their culture, as the Hindus, is vitally important to them. Religion, or even a belief in god, not so much.
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  Finkelstein

  Maybe a better conclusion might be that religious indoctrination that holds or incites people's emotions to restrict knowledge, can result in making intelligent people ignorant and have them intact upon that ignorance.
  
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  DJS

  Fink,

  Well stated. And let's be honest. We can, with almost 100% accuracy, predict whether a poster is a theist or non-theist by reading their posts during secular, scientific or cultural issues that have nothing to do with religion or the bible and we don't know the theism of the poster. We all know it. This site is a laboratory in many ways. The dubs are the least educated and the poorest religious group in the US and likely other industrial lands. That doesn't directly correlate to IQ, but for god's sake we all know there is a correlation, a strong one.

  It is common for a lot of the ex-dubs on this site to make definitive statements about whatever because that's how they have been programmed, either genetically, culturally (religious) or both. We rationals beat our heads against the wall on a regular basis trying to get posters to do some actual research before taking a concrete stand, with their tiny little fists clenched and their Hobbit feet deeply pushed into the concrete. Not budging. At all. And by research I don't mean confirmation biased research.

  That, to me, is one of the best lessons derived from higher education. Having to develop and write research papers, including a Master's thesis (now working toward a PhD) teaches you to never, ever make definitive statements unless they are supported by reference (APA style) from empirically gathered data sources.

  Having taught at two colleges as an adjunct prof, I taught my students the same thing. Papers with opinions or statements without empirical support were bled all over in red ink.
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  CalebInFloroda

  DJS is correct about us Jews.

  Even among the most religious of Jews there is no such thing as "belief" being central to the practice. Jews don't "believe" that G-d exists, as such in the manner that this is important to Christians.

  While I've noticed Christians have a hard time with this when I say it, atheists seem to grasp the concept each time: we don't have "faith" or mental acknowledgement of G-d as an element of our religion. Whether or not a Jew views G-d as real as any material thing on the planet or merely as part of our mythology, the whole concept of the G-d of Abraham and Sarah is very real. Response to this is what makes a Jew a Jew, not belief. Belief (mental acknowledgment) of doctrines can't do anything for a person in Jewish theology. Responses however mean everything.

  Jews can be atheist because Jews act as if G-d is not present to end suffering, help people, make the world better. Jews believe that it is our responsibility to do this. This is what the "chosen" in "chosen people" means to us. We are chosen to be as G-d would act in these circumstances. This philosophy is called "Tikkun Olam" and it replaces the "faith" that is so important to Christians.

  So we do tend to reject things that require credulity. Even those who believe G-d is real have far different and often very logical concepts of what and who Elohim is, many of which would probably insult Christians.

  While parts of Orthodox Judaism is still a little behind in some areas, generally speaking Judaism seeks to avoid being intellectual dishonest with itself and others. That's why it is not earth-shattering to admit that many of our traditions and texts stem from various sources that don't originate with direct revelation from our G-d. And you will find we don't believe that our mythology is true as much as we seek to find values and cherished truths that can be practically applied as Tikklun Olam.
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  LisaRose

  I think people like the black and white answers that are part of a religious belief system. It means they don't have to think or worry about things, they just accept what they are told, then they don't have to think about it. Anything that challenges their belief system is dismissed out of hand because that's the easier thing to do. It's mental laziness.
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  Finkelstein

  Good point LisaRose