Chimps, Gods, & Politics

by patio34 7 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • patio34

    I've been thinking (dangerous territory!). Specifically about bonobo chimps and other chimps. Evolution according to Pat's limited learning:

    Once upon a time, the bonobos and chimps branched off from each other in the evolutionary tree. The chimps took to the trees and the bonobos stayed aground. The difference was caused by food supplies.

    Over time, each group developed different social structures.

    The regular chimps are violent, male-dominated, and the males beat up the females and fight a lot amongst themselves. They rape, plunder, and even kidnap.

    Conversely, the bonobos rarely have any violent disputes. They solve almost everything by sexual encounters and have sex maybe a dozen times a day.

    A major difference that may account for this violent vs. non-violent societies is explained by the fact that the land-based bonobos have a chance for the females to bond together. This prevents brutality by the males. The males get along fine too. The tree-based chimp troops do not have bonding of females since they are largely separated logistically. They are dominated by the males.

    Now, my point is, can this be extrapolated to humans? If so, it would seem a very good thing that the trend has been for women to exercise more power than they have traditionally. This possibly makes for a more peaceable societal arrangement. Groups like the League of Women Voters, etc. have maybe a powerful beneficial unseen evolutionary value.

    Another point in this vein is what Joseph Campbell (a scholar of ancient people) has stated. He said on a Bill Moyers program on public TV that nations that were settled in the past and agriculturally based were much more peaceable and worshipped female goddesses along with male gods in their religion. Like the bonobos.

    He said that the Hebrews, however, were herders, nomadic and it was very significant that their religion had only a male god. The Hebrews were unique in getting rid of all goddesses. They had a "manly god of war" and go to war they did! The fact that they were originally nomadic herders made them always bump into other peoples negatively and agressively.

    So, the absence of women in their religion reflected, and at the same time caused, their very warlike nature, according to Mr. Campbell. The women had no power politically. Same as the regular chimps.

    So, what do you think? Just my thoughts for the week.


    Edited by - Patio34 on 31 August 2002 18:15:50

  • ballistic

    Pat, it's just circumstantial evidence but I have worked in all male and predominantly female environments and I would agree that the all male environments are more aggresive. The mixed environment I work in now tends to have more "bitching" - turn your back and someone stabs you. In the all male environment, people just picked a fight with you to your face.

  • Eric

    >Now, my point is, can this be extrapolated to humans? <



  • Mac

    You forgot to mention the third branch of chimps that eventually made their way to Brooklyn!!!!!!!!!

    Point of interest: the bonobos are quite fond of oral sex and practice homo and bi-sexuality.

  • patio34

    Ballistic, It does seem that a mixed-gender environment works best. A construction site does tend to be "rough," I'd imagine. Likewise, an all-female group has their problems too.

    Eric, thanks for being so succinct.

    Mac, you said:

    the bonobos are quite fond of oral sex and practice homo and bi-sexuality

    This is one feature the WT sure never would put in one of their magazines! They have asserted that homosexuality doesn't exist in the animal kingdom. What nerve they have to blatantly lie like that--or they're just plain ignorant. Both. There's also a species of lizard in the western US that has only females. They have a kind of sex before they reproduce. The fact that there IS homosexual behavior in animals tends to greatly undermine the argument that it's "unnatural" or that they were special-created.


  • larc

    They have sex up to 12 times a day? Where do a sign up for a species change?

    Now thumping my chimp chest, let me tell you. I am in control in my house. I make the big decisions and my wife makes the small ones. Yes, I decide what we are to do about terrorism, the national debt, etc. My wife decides the lesser issues, like the kind of house we live in, the car we drive, etc., so there.

  • patio34

    LOL, Larc! It's good to hear that your wife has control of the less-important things! Pat

  • waiting

    Interesting ideas, Pat,

    I think there are strong similarities in humans, in spite of Eric's succinct answer. Perhaps his being male is part of it? (I am joking, Eric, btw).

    Lol......deep subject. I think I'll procrastinate on it now.......................come back later.


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