why dogma?

SpiderMonkey

I think the title is self-explanatory for the most part, but to clarify: I'm not talking about JW dogma. I mean, why do so many, even ex-jw, settle on dogma? Why use one "holy book" to define your spirituality? Have you really considered alternative writings & thoughts? If not, why not? Bueller?

LyinEyes

Good point spidermonkey, I am not settled in on one dogma of any organzation or church. I am open to finding out new things. I have not really tried very hard here lately to be a spiritual person, as in my beleif in God and all. I just needed a break. But I try to live be a christian even if I am not sure that is what I beleive. My husband told me there were alot of good men other than Jesus , who had wise things to say, like Muhamad, Gandi, and others who talked about our relationships with our fellow man. When I get my mind clear and the kids in school, I hope to crack a few of the "forbidden" books open and see what eles is out there.

larc

Brother SpiderMonkey, I don't read any "spiritual books" Now, why is that? It is because I can't figure it out, and do not want to spent enourmous amounts of time trying to figure out what can't be figured out. "Vanity, vanity, all is vanity." From somewhere in Ecclesiastes. So, how do I spend my time? I do yard work to make my place look better. I go out to dinner with my wife. I go visit my children and my grandchildren. I live in the here and now, and don't worry about eternal issues and my eventual fate. To me, such considerations are a waste of time, and a vexation to the soul.

Sirona

I think its something to do with the nature of the human brain. Its theorised that we try to "organise" everything. Therefore I think that spiritually speaking, people feel much more comfortable having an external source for their religious focus. It stops the confusion.

Some people are satisfied with the most simplistic of explanations about life. They feel happy and secure to think that its all explained for them.

I think that it takes a strong minded person to accept that there is no real answer. Atheists sound strong, but sometimes they hide behind atheism because they just don't want to think about it. Admittedly some atheists think about it deeply but reach the "no God" conclusion. Similarly, I'd say a high percentage of religious people don't want to think about it either. The bible (or whatever book) is the answer, and thats as far as they're going to investigate it.

The minority are religious persons who do think about it, who want to think about it and who reach a much more open minded conclusion. Some refer to books, some don't. Most of these are intelligent, religiously tolerant individuals.

Sirona

Bang

People are "seeking the kingdom of heaven", nirvana, the deep truth, and as Jesus said "it's in the midst of you" - not in the "inner rooms" or somewhere else ("He's over here, time is at hand") - the kingdom of heaven, the knowledge of truth, may be found in how you behave (be and have) with creation and those who are around you - a given thing.

Dogma can be used, very handy, to keep people nearer to the kingdom. Or dogma can be used not to enter, but to put people to work, and sell to those who generally prefer to buy, pay their way "righteously" - albeit that it's a different kingdom - an imaginary one. The kingdom of heaven isn't bought and sold, but an imaginary one can be sold and bought - a nothing that can be made and sold - to those who believe enough in the integrity of the sellers to buy (and without Him was nothing made that was made) - a false promise and an idol.

With dogma you can tend a flock and keep them near, or, with different emphasis (different hearing) you can even have your buyers and sellers using the same language for a different purpose.

It's a very beautiful thing how the kingdom is hidden, right in our midst.

bang

Edited by - bang on 9 August 2002 2:14:46

Satanus

I went to the jw's to find god,
I read the bible to find god,
I prayed to the heavens to find god,
I went to the pentacostalists to find god,
I attended night long singing/preaching to find god,
I read catholic stuff to find god,
I read buddhist stuff to find god,
I read hindu stuff to find god,
I went home,
And discovered god,
Inside, where he had always been.

He smiled with joy/happiness/love that he had been found.

SS

Edited by - saintsatan on 9 August 2002 2:56:15

Bang

On the question of his own Enlightenment
the Master always remained reticent,
even though the disciples tried every means
to get him to talk.

All the information they had on this subject
was what the Master once said
to his youngest son who wanted to know
what his father felt when he became Enlightened.
The answer was: "A fool."

When the boy asked why,
the Master had replied,
"Well, son,
it was like going to great pains
to break into a house by climbing a ladder
and smashing a window and then realizing later
that the door of the house was open."

"How shall I get liberation?"

"Find out who has bound you,"
said the Master.

The disciple returned after a week and said,

"No one has bound me."

"Then why ask to be liberated?"

That was a moment of Enlightenment for the disciple,
who suddenly became free.

RandomTask

My karma just ran over your dogma...

LittleToe

I have to agree with much of what Sirona, bang and SaintSatan have said.

I'm only going from my own personal perspective, but the road is long, and I believe there are many aids. It's as simple or as complicated as we want to make it. But ultimately "life is good".

I've stated, elsewhere ,that I believe that religion may be used as a stepping stone to God (however you want to catagorise that word). Yet, once He has been found it can become a very slippery and dangerous stone indeed. So many have fallen on the rocks of dogma.

Whilst I might argue till I'm blue in the face, on a topic, I still openly acknowledge that this mortal frame know's nothing. Whatever I hold and believe is as subject to change as the sand on the sea bed.

I can live with that, even if others cannot.

SpiderMonkey

Some people are satisfied with the most simplistic of explanations about life. They feel happy and secure to think that its all explained for them.

That is my thought too, Sirona... That it is a paralyzing "need to know" that leads so many to accept dogma as ultimate truth.

I went home, And discovered god, Inside, where he had always been. He smiled with joy/happiness/love that he had been found.

"How shall I get liberation?" "Find out who has bound you," said the Master. The disciple returned after a week and said,
"No one has bound me." "Then why ask to be liberated?" That was a moment of Enlightenment for the disciple,
who suddenly became free.

I very much enjoyed these posts, SS & Bang!

"The Master gives himself up to whatever the moment brings... He doesn't think about his actions; they flow from the core of his being. He holds nothing back from life; therefrore he is ready for death, as a man is ready for sleep after a good day's work." - from Tao Te Ching

why dogma?

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