Religious explanation for suffering vs church shootings

by Simon 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Simon

  Whenever there is a discussion about the "godness" of god and whether he can be described as both "good" and "all powerful" given that he could avoid untold suffering and death for millions of people in earthquakes, floods, tidal waves and other disasters we are often given the same answer:

  "You don't know why he lets it happen but he has a plan".

  Bleh. Often they throw in some snippets that suggest the people may actually deserve it for not praying to the right god or not praying hard enough.

  Of course it's easy to dismiss the death of all those faceless unknown people.

  So, I present to you a new thought experiment for the righteous to grapple with.

  I dare you to use the same arguments to explain the deaths of the people in the recent church shooting.

  Were they not praying hard enough? Were they praying to the wrong god? Surely it's simply part of gods plan and who are we to question it and wonder why?
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  Village Idiot

  It's all mom's (Eve) fault for fooling daddy (Adam) with that tasty fruit. God goes along with all the consequences of the original sin and allows for hideous things to happen so that we may be eternally grateful when we get to heaven and live happily ever after.
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  talesin

  This is food for thought, if a person is willing to use simple logic.

  Even in junior high school, I remember the other kids (CoE school) singing "Jesus Loves the Little Children" and thinking "Why doesn't he love me?" ......... the seeds of doubt in "god" were planted early in my Spock-like mind.

  Yes, and if it's god's plan, then why so vengeful @ the perp? WWJD?
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  StrongHaiku

  Well, let me put on my JW hat from 25 years ago...At the time, on reading the news, I probably would have noted their deaths in passing as a confirmation that the world is getting worse and worse, which is great, because it would mean the "end is near". I probably would have not empathized with their loss and suffering because as far as I was concerned, they should have been "in the Truth" and at a Kingdom Hall. In short, I would have done victim-blaming.

  I was a horrible person then. After leaving the JWs, I now have a better appreciation of life and how precious and valuable it is. I hope I can do better now. And, when I read the news, my reaction this time was different than it would have been in the past. This time, I truly empathized with their loss in a deep way as opposed to using their loss as a way to validate my faith.
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  NCC-1701

  Simon wrote

  Were they not praying hard enough? Were they praying to the wrong god? Surely it's simply part of gods plan and who are we to question it and wonder why?

  I read your opening post and it made me think of some things. I am a christian, never having been a Witness, and I realize that some may have concerns about my participation in this forum. But, may I share some thoughts?

  Fist off, what happened in North Carolina is a complete tragedy. The victims being Christian and involved in "Christian activities" at the time does not make it any more or less tragic than if it had happened to any other group of people anywhere or at anytime in history in my view.

  However, I struggle with it. I want to know why such things happen. At times, I have demanded to know. And, to be honest, I do want to believe that there is a higher purpose behind these events. A higher purpose behind them or an outpouring of grace as a result of them. But they do look so random.

  I also find that when these things happen to Christians, they do seem to get more of my attention. And given what I wrote above, that should not be the case.

  Second thing, I shouldn't be so surprised when these things happen to Christians. I can find no supporting teaching in the bible saying that Christians are automatically excluded from such things. Jesus said that in this life, there will be trouble for his followers. And there are many examples of Christians being killed while doing "God approved" activities. Christians, and others alike, will sometimes suffer the consequences of someone else's heinous actions. And, shamefully, the heinous actions of some who claim to have Christ's approval.

  But I still feel like I've been blindsided sometimes.

  Do I see a plan behind every instance of tragedy that happens to Christians? Can tragedy be used by God to bring about something good? Tough questions. They all look so random.

  But I do believe that there was and is a purpose behind Christ's sufferings. I also believe that if there were any other way to achieve what God wanted, He would have used it. God has felt pain, too.

  At such time that I do have all the answers, I promise to post them.

  Thank you for the opportunity.

  
  
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  cofty

  At such time that I do have all the answers, I promise to post them.

  Christians have had 2000 years to come up with a coherent answer to this question. Every single attempt without exception so far is totally vacuous.

  I won't hold my breath for anything original.

  Suffering IS random. There is no immanent god. Shit happens.
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  Simon

  But at the same time as god failing to do jack shit to protect anyone, some would have us believe that he's helping them to win tennis tournaments or get a promotion.

  Maybe that's why he can't save the unfortunate victims of natural disasters or idiots?

  It's very doubtful god exists but completely certain that if he does then he isn't all powerful, he isn't all knowing, he isn't prescient and he isn't good.

  Why would anyone worship such a waste of space?
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  Vidiot

  StrongHaiku - "I was a horrible person then."

  Not to worry.

  I'm sure you still are. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
• 

  Vidiot

  simon - "Why would anyone worship such a waste of space?"

  As an agnostic, I've gotten to really appreciate this quote...

  (credited to) Marcus Aurelius - "Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but...will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."