Pregnant, HIV+ Woman " No Meds, Rely on God

by Cassiline 9 Replies latest watchtower medical

  • Cassiline
    Cassiline

    I found this article of interest, because the JW's were mentioned by the Senator from Ireland. I wonder how much of an impact this will have on the blood policy in Ireland, if any at all? The article does not say the woman was a JW or what faith she practiced.

    Any medical professional's see any reason for a JW to deny the use of retroviral drugs? I can see a Christian Scientistrefusing the drugs, but I thought they refused all medical treatments and tests? Are there different sects of Christian Scientists, ones who accept some treatment? Antenatal clinic's provide midwives and some testing along with other forms of medical help.

    No matter what religion she is I am appalled she would let her infant risk being exposed to The AIDS virus. Possibly letting her baby suffer from such a devastating disease.

    I do wonder what problems may be in store for the WTS in Ireland because of this ruling.

    Order on HIV mother to affect religious groups
    By Padraig O'Morain


    Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Scientists and others, Senator Mary Henry said last night.

    The court heard the woman had refused antenatal treatment to prevent HIV transmission and that she had also said she would not give birth at the Coombe Women's Hospital in Dublin.

    Mr Justice Finnegan ordered the woman to accept treatment to reduce the risk of transmission of HIV and directed that, on birth, the baby be made a ward of court. This means the court would direct the baby's medical treatment.

    Senator Henry, who is a medical practitioner, said the decision was a landmark one and also problematic. It could have a broader effect on Christian Scientists, Jehovah's Witnesses and others who objected to certain conventional treatments. "In general we have relied on doctors being able to persuade a pregnant woman to do what is best for her child. So far as I know we have never failed."

    The court heard the woman had tested positive for HIV last March when she was attending an antenatal clinic. She was shocked and angry at the test result but had agreed to attend a support clinic for people suffering with HIV. She had attended that clinic a number of times but declined to have HIV treatment with retroviral drugs. One of the purposes of such drugs was to reduce the risk of transmission of the virus to the child.

    The benefits of such treatment were discussed with her on four occasions between March and June 26th but she had emphatically stated she did not wish to receive such treatment. She had also said that God would look after both herself and her baby.

    A medical social worker at the Coombe had discussed the situation at length with the woman on June 26th but the woman again indicated she was not willing to commence treatment antenatally. She had said God would heal her and further indicated that if the baby was sick after delivery the doctors could take the baby away, according to an affidavit from Ms Rachael Devlin, childcare manager with the South Western Area Health Board.

    The woman had initially said she would not give birth in the Coombe because she did not trust the doctors and had concerns about the hospital. The judge said his grandchild was born in the Coombe recently and that he had no complaints. He told the woman he would have to make much more serious orders affecting her personal bodily integrity if she refused to give birth in a hospital. She then agreed to do so.

    The woman, who has five other children, is due to give birth next week.


    The Irish Times

    http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/front/2002/0720/2914615575HM1BABY.html

    Retroviral drugs;

    Nucleoside Reverse Transcriptase Inhibitors (NRTIs)

    Non-nucleoside Reverse Transcriptase Inhibitors (NNRTIs)

    Protease Inhibitors

  • Imbue
    Imbue

    This was already posted by someone else.

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=32684&site=3

    Many HIV infected persons go through a period of denial and refuse treatment regardless of their religion. Also, some HIV infected mothers refuse treatment during pregnancy and it's really about denial and not about religiosity.

  • plmkrzy
    plmkrzy
    She had also said that God would look after both herself and her baby.

    That is exactly what my sister-in-law said when she was breached with her second child and almost died. She refused to go to the hospital. They just got into this new cult and completely stopped believing in any form of medical care what so ever. She said "We put all our faith in Jesus, if the baby dies then it must be his will"

    GADS!

  • Cassiline
    Cassiline

    Many HIV infected persons go through a period of denial and refuse treatment regardless of their religion. Also, some HIV infected mothers refuse treatment during pregnancy and it's really about denial and not about religiosity. ~~Imbue

    Considering the fact that I bothered to read and comprehend the article, I believe the statement's quoted below by the woman herself point in another direction then denial Imbue. I would say it has a lot to do with God and religion.

    ...she had emphatically stated she did not wish to receive such treatment. She had also said that God would look after both herself and her baby.
    She had said God would heal her..

    Coupled with these statement's by Senator Mary Henry;

    A High Court order to a pregnant woman to have treatment to prevent the transmission of the HIV virus to her unborn child could have serious implications forJehovah's Witnesses, Christian Scientists and others, Senator Mary Henry said last night.

    Senator Henry, who is a medical practitioner, said the decision was a landmark one and also problematic. It could have a broader effect on Christian Scientists, Jehovah's Witnesses and others who objected to certain conventional treatments.

    It seems to me the article states several times Religion was/is an issue. Enough so to have a medical practioner who is also a Senator comment on the landmark decision.

    This Senator, Mary Henry's referendum objectives include Health Service Reform. I would think to have this woman fighting for the rights of a baby in utero or a minor child for reform on the WTS blood policy would be extraordinary. If she were willing I am positive she would make a great advocate.

    Perhaps she would be interested for more information on the JW blood policy. Being a Senator I am sure she may be willing to listen to the silent lambs cause as well.

    Senator Mary Henry, M.D.
    12 Burlington Road, Dublin 4.
    Seanad ireann, Leinster House, Dublin 2.
    Telephone: (O1) 6683663 (home)/ 6183346 (work).
    Email: [email protected]

    Thanks Imbue for pointing out that others found the article as interesting as well.

    edited;$%# formating

    Edited by - cassiline on 2 August 2002 0:15:0

  • Imbue
    Imbue

    I'm not disputing whether this article and the woman's issue is her religiosity. I was recalling my own experiences with HIV/AIDS clients. I've seen levels of denial that are astounding. One client, I worked with, refused to believe that he was infected. He often stated "it must be the vitamin I've been taking lately." Ignorance and denial combined can be dangerous as you can see from this article. I don't believe it is exclusively a dub problem but is common in among those with a limited education. There are many communities that are ignorant of medical options.

  • dungbeetle
    dungbeetle

    There are days when I wish I was in some other line of work.

    Why force this woman to undergo treatment for her child when millions of women are smoking/doing drugs/alcohol/ and whatever else. Are we discriminating here? Although I have to admit, the 'Let God handle it' statement speaks to this woman not being of sound mind/judgement and in which case they are right to intervene. And I DO hope they intervene the same way with so-called mature minors. That would be nice.

    I wonder where the other four children are and how they are doing.

  • willy_think
    willy_think

    I thought "it" was just a hunk of flesh. You know her body her choice? what if she had said the hell with it I'll just kill it know, would we see it on the net? no, that would be fine, but this sucks. I'll never understand.

    if what we do now kills the baby in the womb that is OK, but if what we do now will kill the baby after it is out of the womb that is child abuse.

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek
    what if she had said the hell with it I'll just kill it know, would we see it on the net? no, that would be fine

    No, it wouldn't be fine. Abortion is still illegal in Ireland. The decision does raise a host of ethical questions though.

  • willy_think
    willy_think

    I know Abortion is still illegal in Ireland many US citizens, not me, see it as "rule from the Vatican," they call the Irish law "oppressive to women."

    How about this then: "the hell with it I'll just go to England and kill it next week."

    An Irish woman with HIV going to England to have an abortion is hardly news. unless a judge were to have her confined so she could not leave the state until her baby is born.

    The judges decision IS a step in the right direction, don't get me wrong, it's just sometimes I feel people are blind to the true horror happening every day. 5,000 dead baby's in the US today, 5,000 yesterday, 5,000 tomorrow and all the tomorrow's until we can stop the killing and no one is looking.

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek
    An Irish woman with HIV going to England to have an abortion is hardly news. unless a judge were to have her confined so she could not leave the state until her baby is born

    Believe it or not, that happened and made huge headlines here about ten years ago, leading to a referendum which enshrined the right to information and the right to travel in the Irish constitution.

    Forcing someone to have medical treatment against her will - on the basis that she's pregnant - opens up an ethical can of worms. Should pregnant women be banned from smoking? Drinking? Eating unhealthily? Working too hard? Being vegetarian/vegan? At what point - if ever - do the rights of a foetus/embryo supercede the rights of the host parent?

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