"The nations will know"

by Jr 7 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Jr

  No doubt you are familiar with the text at Eze. 36:23. I quote, “and the nations will have to know that I am Jehovah, is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah”.

  It was used as a title for one of the study publications years ago. No doubt you and everyone else are familiar. Well this book was used to show that Jehovah would glorify his name by means of his people. In other words, the nations would look upon his people as being vindicated, thus glorifying his name. BUT, if we look closely at the surrounding verses, we will see that isn’t what is being said. It is just the opposite. And I quote,

  “ Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said: “Not for your sakes am I doing [it], O house of Israel, but for my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have come in.” And I shall certainly sanctify my great name, which was being profaned among the nations, which you profaned in the midst of them ; and the nations will have to know that I am Jehovah, ’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, ‘when I am sanctified among you before their eyes. (Eze. 36:22-24)

  So, as you can see, Israel is in fact being disciplined before the eyes of the nations. This is what will show the nations who Jehovah is. Then he will restore “her”. And I quote, “ This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said, ‘In the day of my cleansing you from all your errors I will also cause the cities to be inhabited, and the devastate places must be rebuilt. And the desolated land itself will be cultivated, whereas it had become a desolate waste before the eyes of every passerby.” (Eze. 36:33-34) These are future events.

  And that is why I quoted Isa. 30:26 before, ““And the light of the full moon must become as the light of the glowing sun; and the very light of the glowing sun will become seven times as much, like the light of seven days, in the day that Jehovah binds up the breakdown of his people and heals even the severe wound resulting from the stroke BY HIM.”

  Daniel also mentions this, “And I saw, I Daniel, and, look! There were two others standing, one on the bank here of the stream and the other on the bank there of the stream. Then one said to the man clothed with the linen, who was up above the waters of the stream: “How long will it be to the end of the wonderful things?” And I began to hear the man clothed with the linen, who was up above the waters of the stream, as he proceeded to raise his right hand and his left hand to the heavens and to swear by the One who is alive for time indefinite: “It will be for and appointed time, appointed times and a half.” And as soon as there will have been a finishing of the dashing of the power of the HOLY PEOPLE to pieces , all these things will come to their finish.”

  See the holy ones will be “dashed to pieces.”

  If you look at the footnote of this scripture, you will see it references Rev. 11:7. There it talks about the two witnesses doing a witnessing work. But if you look at 11:1-4, you will see that this holy city will be trampled 42 months. This holy city has reference to where God’s people reside. And the two witnesses will do their work 1260 days.

  IF YOU LOOK AT DANIEL 12:9,10’s reference (g), you will see it points the REV. 7:14 and I quote,

  “ So right away I said to him: “My lord, you are the one that knows.” And he said to me: These are the ones that come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the book of the Lamb.”

  Yes, it is the “holy ones” that have been dashed to pieces that are being disciplined. The great tribulation will be upon Jehovah’s people, not the world. It will be their discipline. And then they would have washed their robes in the blood of the lamb. That is why the scriptures say, “judgment starts with the house of God.” JEHOVAH IS NOT PLEASED WITH HIS PEOPLE IN THE LAST DAYS. That is why he MUST discipline them. For who ever he loves, he disciplines. (Heb. 12:6)

  JR

  Edited by - Jr on 4 March 2001 16:2:39
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  Jr

  Hi,
  that's quite some fact! It shows how much Jehovah has to accomplish by other means.

  JR

  That's interesting. All of my comments are coming in front of yours.???

  Edited by - Jr on 9 March 2001 14:43:6
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  wakeupcall

  I noticed the last two years that there are no Witnesses in Red China. It has a population of 1.4 billion people! Check you January 1st issue of the Watchtower magazine.

  http://www.truthandgrace.com
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  Prisca

  Hi wakeupcall,

  welcome to the db.

  The reason why China is not listed is because the witnesses are banned there. There are witnesses in China, but if they listed it as one of the countries they report from, it would direct attention to them there.

  At the bottom of the annual report, you will see a line stating "other countries" and figures for those collective countries where the witnesses are banned.
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  wakeupcall

  JR: And the number is very small for the number of people living in Red China. No, Jehovah's Witnesses are not the people of God and the message is not about a paradise earth kingdom of God. Rather, true people of God are Jesus Witnesses according to Acts 1:8 and the good news is about Jesus Christ according to 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. Moreover the kingdom of God concerns Jesus Christ according to Acts 28:23. It's time to come into the New Testament for a full revelation of Biblical truth.

  http://www.truthandgrace.com
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  Gopher

  JR: You took the name I was going to have, because those are my initials! But you were here first. Anyways, you string together some interesting scriptures. Would you be willing to clarify your position, so I can understand it better?

  Daniel 12:10 speaks of a difference between those who whiten themselves and those who are wicked. While Revelation 7:14 says that those who whiten themselves "come out" of the great tribulation, evidently meaning they survived through it, does that necessarily mean THEY are the great tribulation's primary object? Later in vss. 15 to 17 a very peaceful, happy group of worshippers are presented.

  I would cite an earlier precedent of the Flood, which would seem to parallel the future "great tribulation". Noah and his family certainly made it THROUGH that tribulation/flood, but they were not its object. They had to be spiritually pure or "whitened" to endure all that they did faithfully in the time leading up to the Flood.

  It seems that the "dashing" of God's people indicate a severe time of trial. You cited Revelation 11 in your post. Yet later, after that 'dashing' (or 'trampling', as Revelation says) in verse 11 it shows that they actually attain God's favor, out of reach of their spiritual enemies.

  Bottom line to me, are you trying to say that to belong to God's people in the last days, the ones who would see salvation, you would also have to be subject to constant "dashing" and "trampling"? And that if we don't belong to an organization undergoing such turmoil, that we are going to miss out on God's provision of salvation?

  Please clarify, if you will.
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  Gopher

  Wakeupcall: I do not know your background, but I'll briefly give you mine. I was a faithful JW member up until 1 year ago, when they, shall you say, dismissed me. Even after that, I would explain / defend the Society's belief's up until more recent events in my life caused me to stop and think, why I am defending them? (The Freeminds site was a great help to me.) So while I still agree with some of the basic tenets of the JW faith, I cannot any longer believe it is God's chosen singular instrument of truth, through whom you must approach God, etc., etc.

  Now comes my question: I went to the Truthandgrace web site. I see that its primary goal is to debunk the teachings of the WT magazine and give glory to Jesus Christ. I want it to do so, but only in the most truthful manner possible.

  For example, when the website said "There are NO witnesses in mainland China", that is obviously an exaggeration and an untruth. There are many JW's there and many other Christian groups operating underground, although with great persecution.

  Do you know why "Truthandgrace" uses exaggeration to debunk the Witnesses? I would submit to them, there are enough openings to do so in a truthful manner.
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  Jr

  Gopher,

  Jehovah’s primary concern at this point is the disciplining, refining, and restoration of his people, Israel. Some will be called out of the organization when he rocks the heavens and earth soon. Haggai 2:6 – “For this is what Jehovah of armies has said, ‘Yet once – it is a little while – and I am rocking the heavens and the earth and the sea and the dry ground.’ These are a special group called the “tents of Judah”. The “tents of Judah” are chosen by Jehovah to fill a special role in his incoming kingdom. He will save these first.(Zech 12:7) Then he will rock the nations. Haggai 2:67, “And I will rock all the nations, and the desirable things of all the nations must come in; and I will fill this house with glory,’ Jehovah of armies has said.” Jehovah will bring in many from the nations to replace many(like in the first century) and to make up the new “Spiritual Israel”. Right before the Great tribulation, the “Male child” spoken of in Revelation 12:5 will be expelled from the organization. This is a group of high level brothers in the organization that are attempting to reform it. They will be expelled and used by Jehovah to govern earth’s affairs. Then the great tribulation starts.
  The king of the north referred to in Daniel chapter 11 will attack God’s people. Daniel 11:15,16, “And the king of the North will come and throw up a siege rampart and actually capture a city with fortification…And he will stand in the land of decoration…” -The land of “Decoration” has always referred to where God’s people reside, in his spiritual temple. As I continue, Daniel 11:30 says,
  “And he will actually go back and hurl denunciations against the holy covenant and act effectively; and he will have to go back and will give consideration to those leaving the holy covenant. And there will be arms that will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will actually profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature. And they will certainly put in place the disgusting thing that is causing desolation. Here is where the king of the North places his influence inside the congregation, the disgusting thing. Jesus as an indication of the time to flee to the mountains before the “great tribulation”
  mentions this. In Matthew 24, it says “when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation, as spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in a holy place, (let the reader use discernment,) then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains. “ But as we go on in Daniel, ”And those who are acting wickedly against the covenant, he will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words.” These that are acting wickedly are ones in the congregation that will be willing to accept the mark of the beast mentioned at Rev. 14:9. These will be lead into apostasy. Actually, the majority of God’s people will be among them. The scriptures indicate only a third of them will act with
  insight. Listen, ”And it must occur in all the land, is the utterance of Jehovah, “that two parts in it are what will be cut off and expire; and as for the third, it will be left remaining in it. And I shall
  certainly bring the third through the fire; and I shall actually refine them as in the refining of silver, and examine them as in examining of gold. It, for it’s part, will call upon my name, and I, for my part, will answer it.”- Zechariah 13:8,9 As we continue in Daniel, it speaks of those having insight. Listen, “But as regards the people who are knowing their God, they will prevail and act effectively. And
  as regards those having insight among the people, they will impart understanding to the many. And they will certainly be made to stumble by sword and by flame, by captivity and by plundering, for some days… And those having insight will be made to stumble, in order to do a refining work because of them and to do a cleansing and to do a whitening, until the time of the end.” This is a period during the great tribulation. This is what is referred to at Revelation chapter 12:5,6, ”And she gave birth to a son, a
  male, who is to shepherd all the nations with an iron rod. And her child was caught away to God and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and sixty days.” This woman represents the third of redeemable servants of God, 1/3 of JW’s. They flee into the wilderness away from the face of the dragon. They don’t the want the mark of the beast. They know it’s wrong and refuse to serve it. So, they flee away from organizational arrangements, the wilderness. There Jehovah will provide special spiritual feeding for them. Ones place in Jehovah’s arrangement is dependent on him. Individuals like yourself can learn and accept a responsibility to support Jehovah’s kingdom. The key is learn, then bring your life in harmony with it. This all depends on ones response to the “Report” God issues mentioned at Ezekiel 21:6,7.

  JR

  Edited by - Jr on 19 March 2001 18:11:15