by FusionTheism 88 Replies latest jw friends
Island Man: Do you think Watchower is unaware that 607 BCE is false? They know it's false! Carl Johnson wrote a book logically showing its false and sent them a copy.
You forgot to mention that Johnson was disfellowshipped as a result of his efforts to correct this false teaching.
THAT is how the WT leadership responds to genuine efforts from its members to correct errors.
Let's review: It's a cult!
Pete Zahut: They condemn other religions for teaching falsehoods yet have done the same thing themselves from the very beginning. Unlike the Catholics, they have never come out and formally apologized for the falsehoods and wrongdoings of those who went before them nor for the ones they taught or committed themselves.
Exactly!
Fusion Theism, on the first page of this thread I asked you to respond to two points:
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We are now on page seven and you have yet to respond. Why is that?
Oubliette
What do I want the Society to do? DIE. I want the whole thing dissolved, and for everyone to be able to move on.
THESE IDEAS MUST DIE
Fusion: To the people with this attitude: What exactly is it that you WANT the Society to do?
Well, I am not sure where i would fit on your attitude measurement scale...but, I can throw out a suggestion as to what the WTS should be required to do.
They should be required to give a certain percentage of their gross take towards cult recovery. This would include money that would establish safe shelters and havens for the ones who are damaged by the WTS restrictive policies.
The WTS should be assessed a 'damage tax'.
It would be responsible acknowledgement of the problems that the rest of society is burdened with because of the WTS organization.
For an example, in the province that I live, it is mandatory for the Liquor and Gaming Authority to use a set percentage of the funds collected from casinos and liquor sales to combat liquor and gaming addictions.
The WTS should be held to the same standards and be made to contribute a significant amount of money towards those victims who need cult recovery treatment.
The mistake here, as on other similar threads before, is to assume that the poster whose OP has elicited so many responses is actually going through these one by one, thoughtfully weighing up the arguments.
It is likely Fusion Theism has made up his mind without the need to consider answers to questions he himself raised..
If you condemn the Society for NOT changing, but then you also condemn them when they DO change in a positive way, what incentive or motive does that provide for the people at the Society to ever want to change for the better?
I don't think that I have condemned the Society for changing or not changing.
I think the videos and shorter meetings are good. Wish we had them when I was a child. However that isn't the reason I left.
I also think the Witnesses are basically the same I don't really see anything that alters them theologically.
Steve2: The mistake here, as on other similar threads before, is to assume that the poster whose OP has elicited so many responses is actually going through these one by one, thoughtfully weighing up the arguments.
I don't know if your comments are in relation to my most recent post and others like them, but I don't post expecting a response from FT.
I post for the benefit of lurkers.
People like FT never respond to questions like mine for a very simple reason. If they did, it would only prove my point. Their silence is a second best approximation of acknowledgement.
The WT doesn't change for the better. It changes when it has to. Technology and society made the internet go from being a tool of the devil to see blessing from Jehovah. Some unknown JWs medical condition transformed fractions of blood to a conscience issue instead of a disfelloshippin issue and more remarkably, made those fractions to not really BE blood. Similarly, other formerly forbidden blood related surgical procedures are now allowed. Nothing about scripture or blood actually changed.
Overlapping generations-time is biting them on the butt. This trend will continue.
Types and anti - types are likewise having time and history demonstrate that the teachings were false and self serving. To wipe that out with one fell swoop was self serving as they now get to dismiss so much of the nonsense that is now proven to be nonsense.
It's true,the WTBTS has shown no remorse or repentance for their words and actions. You would have been DFd for any of the false teachings had they been yours, b u t also DFd if you would have asked tough questions about the original teachings or the changes.
Oubliette and Steve2,
I've merely been waiting and observing so I could see all of the amazing "friendly and tolerant" posts here.
But seriously, positive changes in recent years' publications (no I'm not going to spend my entire off day to provide you the exact page numbers of each change. They're all available on JW.org, wol.jw.org or tv.jw.org) include:
* The statements that Witnesses should call the police on child molesters.
* The elimination of the vast majority of wacky Bible interpretations that applied to the Organization.
* The Society now PROMOTING and APPROVING the use of social networks/media.
* The Society now highly encouraging Internet use, even for children.
* The Society repeatedly posting new statements on their website saying that Witnesses cannot earn salvation by preaching or works.
* The huge increase in focus on Jesus and repeatedly acknowledging that Jesus is divine.
* A gradual removal of the 1914, 1919 teachings.
* A gradual improvement of their shunning practices, especially with their New Convention and Return to Jehovah Brochure.
* A much, much improved simplified interpretation of Bible events and stories.
* A gradual improvement of their blood policies, including the approval of hemoglobin and many other fractions.
* Repeatedly stating that only Jesus judges the goats and they are not to be judged by anyone until the end of the Great Tribulation.
* Acknowledging and discussing many, many of their mistakes.
For example, start watching the 2014 Annual Meeting Talk at the 2 hour, 8 minute mark, and you'll see a Governing Body member acknowledging some crazy Type/Antitype ideas of the past, in addition to acknowledging and condemning Russell's Pyramidology / Numerology.
Also see the March 15, 2015 Study Edition Watchtower articles to see many acknowledgements of past errors.
