Wrestling with change, technology, jealousy, and spiritual need...

by silent 9 Replies latest jw friends

  • silent
    silent

    Hey gang, I'm a fader and I've made a few posts in the past, but I mostly lurk. I had a visit with a family member the other night and they know how I feel about my life as a Witness growing up. My life as a Witness was NOT fun, I had no friends "in the truth," was picked on relentlessly in school, and basically my life as a Witness left me with not one real good memory. Being laughed at every single day at school for being seen at doors, being ostracized by Witnesses because I didn't go out often for that reason, and just a huge wad of negative emotions and memories every single time anything about JWs comes up.

    I've been doing a lot of thinking lately how a person gets "over" these kinds of things. I know many people are seriously angry for what the religion has done to their families. I don't blame them at all. Most all of my bad memories are based on unfairness and unjustness where people did some pretty serious things and got away with it whereas others did things that seemed rather petty and they got the book thrown at them. Out of all the people I've met in my life, the ones that have been the most imbalanced, least friendly, least loving, hateful, crazy, bonkers, have overwhelmingly been Witnesses. Is it any wonder then, based upon my past, that I really can't stand to be around them?

    Getting to the topic of my message, it was hounded into my skull from a very young age at the meetings, that we are to remain no part of this world. It meant not following it's customs, traditions, holidays, and basically any practice that could be deemed pagan. I've struggled to find justification then, if we are to remain seperate from these people, why it is justified then that we seek their help when we need a doctor, mechanic, plumber, electrician, lawyer, etc.? Why is it okay to embrace inventions of worldly people such as cars, computers, airplanes, helicopters, and a whole slew of modern inventions (electronic devices) just because it benefits you personally? I know I'm sounding Amish, but I really wrestle with this technology in the organization and I'll tell you why. When I was a young teen, I bought a computer with my sibling and we joked with each other saying, "I wonder how long it'll be before there is a magazine article against it?" It was about 2 years later if I remember correctly. Boy did I cop it. I was made to feel guilty for having a computer and any time there was a part on the meeting about computer use, the old bittys would look over at me making sure this counsel sunk in. The devil's internet which I've been on for 25 years has been warned against countless times.

    So when I see the organization frantically embracing this technology, I'm quite frankly jealous. I liked my technology in the day and was made to feel bad about it. I remember the buzz when the announcement of the CD-Rom came out in the 90s. Witnesses suddenly were buying computers in droves because they took it that it was okay for Witnesses to own computers now. I'm just really, really put out that I had to endure a couple of decades of this, and in the end it was all for nought. I've been to a few meetings here and overseas and I'm really shocked at seeing people with their notebooks and devices being used in the audience. It looks to me like a total selling out to the worldly ways of doing things based upon what I was so fervently taught. We were told over and over and over and over and over that you MUST use the Bible, read it, look up scriptures in it, share what the printed page of the Bible says. Not even a photocopy was tolerated, but a worldly invention is okay now? I just don't get it.

    Now I'm torn - do I just dimiss this, forgive it, and overlook this as if it never happened and leave myself open to more chastising over embracing some new, leading-edge tech, that hasn't yet been approved? Or do I remember how I was treated and how what was once said, later proved to be false, knee-jerk reactions to a new technology and use this view to temper what is currently understood and taught as mere drivel that could change at any moment or any whim?

    I have a very logical mind and have been told by many workmates and people I've met that I'm very bright yet when it comes to religious teachings, I spiral into depths of catch-22s, dead-ends, illogical reasonings, and just flat out things that make no sense that, if I bring them to light to Witnesses, they either give me a blank stare, avoid me, or just try to mask it over by telling me to attend more meetings. I end up on anti-depressants and wanted to kill myself more times than I could imagine. When I don't go, I don't have to take pills, and I don't feel like killing myself.

    And despite all of this, I still feel a spiritual need of sorts. I like what the Bible teaches as far as morality, love, kindness, praying, etc. I do not like what man adds to it like service time, multi-layer hierachies, rank, and putting men above one another. I agree with most all of the teachings such as avoiding pagan holiday stuff, but I struggle with the justification of wearing ties that, as I understand, originated in France as a decoration for soliders. How much pagan is okay? Days of the week and months are pagan names, but that is okay, but if I put a Christmas ornament up on my door, I could get in trouble. I struggle with the inconsistancies, the hypocrisy, the changing of what is considered right and wrong, and the lack of anything really stable and reasonable. I've been told I'm a black and white thinker and many of my bosses over the past have told me that. I know it's from growing up as a Witness. They did a good job of hacking my brain to think very rigidly.

    So how does a fader as myself, who has a spiritual need they'd like to fulfill at least a little bit among loving, caring, and forgiving people, believes as a Witness (mostly as it's the closest thing to what I believe), but can't stand the Witnesses, nor being around them, suffers depression and anxiety for about 4 days after attending a meeting - how does that person fulfill a spiritual need when the people who claim to follow the same God and same teachings, are acting as a barrier?

    I'm thinking that it might be sufficient to get out my Bible and just read exactly what it says. I think if I can forget about the GB and all that malarky with Disctrict and Circuit overseers, Elders, and all that hierarchical good-ol-boys club, maybe I can get a clearer message and maybe a shred of self-esteem. The damage has been done, but I'd like to change something inside of me and try to fix it because so far how I got started out really messed me up.

    Thanks for reading...

    -silent

  • sparrowdown
    sparrowdown

    Hi silent, the WT are full of it; lies, double standards, inconsistencies, hypocrasy. This embracing of technology is just the latest back flip.

    It can take some time to wash that cult right out of your hair, so hang in there. You seem to have insight into your tendency towards rigid thinking

    which is good news because what was learned can also be unlearned and it sounds like you are well on the way. Good for you.

  • LisaRose
    LisaRose

    Now I'm torn - do I just dimiss this, forgive it, and overlook this as if it never happened and leave myself open to more chastising over embracing some new, leading-edge tech, that hasn't yet been approved?

    I think you know the answer to that. Why would you want to be with any group that would make you feel that way? Why would God want you to feel like that?

    I'm thinking that it might be sufficient to get out my Bible and just read exactly what it says

    I think that is an excellent idea. You will probably be surprised by how many JW beliefs don't hold up when the bible is read in context.

    Dispite all of this, I still feel a spiritual need of sorts. I like what the Bible teaches as far as morality, love, kindness, praying, etc. I do not like what man adds to it like service time, multi-layer hierachies, rank, and putting men above one another.

    This is good, you know what you do need and what you don't. Take that as a starting point for your spiritual journey. Listen to the part of you that knows that the lying and hypocrisy of the Watchtower is wrong.

    I think if I can forget about the GB and all that malarky with Disctrict and Circuit overseers, Elders, and all that hierarchical good-ol-boys club, maybe I can get a clearer message and maybe a shred of self-esteem. The damage has been done, but I'd like to change something inside of me and try to fix it because so far how I got started out really messed me up.

    I think you are on the right track. What do you think Jesus would say about a religion that leaves you with no self esteem, that makes you feel so bad that you feel damaged? Did he not say that if you did it to the least, you have done it to him?

    So how does a fader as myself, who has a spiritual need they'd like to fulfill at least a little bit among loving, caring, and forgiving people, believes as a Witness (mostly as it's the closest thing to what I believe), but can't stand the Witnesses, nor being around them, suffers depression and anxiety for about 4 days after attending a meeting - how does that person fulfill a spiritual need when the people who claim to follow the same God and same teachings, are acting as a barrier?

    The Watchtower engages in a lot of black or white thinking. They take minor differences in interpretation of scripture and use that to justify condemning everyone that doesn't teach exactly what they do. If you read the Greek scriptures, there were sometimes arguments and disagreements, yet these people were not disfellowshipped, as they would be in the organization today. The Watchtower may have got some things right, but does that make them better? Not when you balance that against the hypocrisy, lies and mind control. The bible says that "by this you will know that they are my disciples, that they love one another" Did you feel that love? I know I didn't. If they don't have that love, none of the rest matters, does it?

    So try to avoid this kind of black or white thinking, that is just the mind control at work here. Don't reject another religion out of hand because they teach some doctrine that you object to. In the first place, you might have been mislead by the Watchtower, in the second place, what is most important is the love, not some doctrinal matter.

    The damage has been done, but I'd like to change something inside of me and try to fix it because so far how I got started out really messed me up.

    The fact that you are asking these questions proves that you are not damaged beyond repair. You can fix this. Keep an open mind, be willing to reexamine everything you believe, don't get hung up on the details, be open to the possibilities. Your journey may end in another faith, or in a simple belief in Christianity with no association of any formal religion, or something you can't even imagine now.

    I wish you well in your journey.

  • berrygerry
    berrygerry

    When I don't go, I don't have to take pills, and I don't feel like killing myself.

    I went through a multi-year depression. The less I was involved with meetings, the better I felt.

    The night I was kicked out was horrible.

    The day after, overwhelming relief.

    And despite all of this, I still feel a spiritual need of sorts. I like what the Bible teaches as far as morality, love, kindness, praying, etc.

    My favourite verse is Mt. 5:3 Philips "Happy are those who know their need for God."

    I do believe in a Creator.

    I do believe that the Universe was created by the greatest mathematical mind conceivable (actually inconceivable).

    How to put everything together - who knows?

    But, Matt. 22:37-39 is a good start.

    The post about the Good Samaritan.

    Was it looking down at this unconscious wretch, and stuffing a tract in his pocket, and saying: "Hey, if you survive, read this. If you accept the way we teach the Bible, then God will take of you"?

  • Caedes
    Caedes
    If god gave you a mind why is it wrong to use it? The JWs or indeed any religion are never going to have any answers for you because you are always going to be able to see through to the fact that they never give a straight answer to anything.
  • millie210
    millie210

    Hi silent,

    Im glad that today you decided to be un silent, You write very thought provoking words. 

    There are 3 things you mentioned that caught my eye.

    Should you embrace newer technology?

    Why not? The Society does when they want to - why not you? 

    On your idea about reading the Bible straight through without someone telling you to view it any certain way:

    Great idea! Even if you dont like what you find, it is YOUR journey. Take it.

    As for your thoughts on small mindedness:

    Unfortunately that is an identifying trait of Jws but I have heard from others that moving to a more "enlightened" area helps.

    I have a friend who visited in West Palm Florida. She said everyone shows up 2 minutes before meetings in their Mercedes and Bimmers wearing killer clothes and barely speaking (but everyone was nice - not mean at all). Meeting held, Hall cleared out quickly.

    Maybe attending meetings in an affluent, highly educated area might give you enough of a difference to help you feel more comfortable while you sort your mind out?   

    You sound like a very nice and sincere person. I wish you well. 


  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange

    When I don't go, I don't have to take pills, and I don't feel like killing myself.

    What more is there to say?

    Doc

  • FayeDunaway
    FayeDunaway
    Do some research! Examine every witness teaching, read apologist Christian sites about these teachings, look at both sides. There IS spiritual life outside of the org, I'm so glad I'm where I'm at now. They are mixed up in so many ways, don't take it for granted they're right about their teachings. Everything you've learned has been through their bible and their angles. Look elsewhere. 
  • Fernando
    Fernando

    What a beautiful piece you've written silent.

    It seems to me that your instincts are spot on, and that all your problems are directly related to ignoring your instincts.

    Clericalism, hierarchy, magisterium, self-righteousness, hypocrisy, legalism and inconsistency are powerful proofs that these religious folks and their thinking are not of God. Quite the opposite.

    Best wishes on the journey.

    Fernando

  • Iown Mylife
    Iown Mylife

    Welcome. Thank you for making a lot of good points.

    Kids believe what they're told, while they grow up. Like the people who believed the earth was flat. You just believe it until you learn better, which brings on the cognitive dissonance.

    Many cults exist and the WT is one of them. The term sociopathic describes the WT cult very well. The organization teaches with concentrated mind control that there is no higher authority than itself. One example of this is the way they defy court orders to produce documents in child abuse trials.

    My emotional, programmed response to negative information about WT was cleared over time when I found out the stuff they cover up so strenuously. I knew I had to stop supporting the org and get out. Which was easy for my husband and me after our family was out - everyone has different circumstances.

    Marina

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