God's Spirit

by Hold Me-Thrill Me 73 Replies latest jw friends

  • Viviane
    Viviane
    you are always asking questions of believers and here I ask you (and other interlopers on this thread - myself included I guess) a simple question and you tell me to look it up.

    I asked what was meant in the context the word was used because,in the context of the discussion, what is meant by "significant deviation" isn't clear. Deviations can vary by order of magnitude depending on context. Hence the request for clarification.

    I don't ask people to define words from a dictionary, I ask for the contextual nuance critical to understanding what they are saying.

    So I repeat what do you (and anyone who does not believe in god) think process means?

    You're still free to look it up. There is no contextual nuance.

  • Hold Me-Thrill Me
    Hold Me-Thrill Me

    Thanks for the recommended reading Cofty. I have a few books on evolution. Some from the Smithsonian supporting evolution and a few from those who support creation.

    If you want the details - and I do mean DETAILS - read chapter 4 "Making the New From the Old" in "The Making of the Fittest" by Sean B. Carroll

    I will. That's exactly what I'm looking for. I have no reluctance to getting into the "DETAILS" in fact my personal interests include biology. I believe the proof of evolution or creation is in the details.

    In the video above there was a segment which proposed that having similar bone structure is one line of evidence supporting evolution, But in truth, all that proves is there are similar bone structures not that evolution is the cause of the similar bone structures. Later in the video the narrator pointed out a set of bones inside the whale's body and said perhaps they were leftovers from the whales evolutionary history and connects them with the bones in the hind quarters of animals.

    Note the underlined sentences in Wikipedia's Cetacea article below:

    Sexual Reproduction

    "Cetaceans evolved from land-dwelling ancestors and lost external hind limbs. They evolved significantly reduced pelvic bones that seemed to serve no other function except to anchor muscles that maneuver the penis. Cetacean pelvic bones are unique because they are no longer constrained by sacral and hind limb attachments or by hind limb locomotion.

    Cetacean pelvic bones were often thought of as “useless vestiges” of their land-dwelling ancestors. However, they are a critical component of male reproductive fitness.

    The paired pelvic bones anchor the genitalia and the paired ischiocavernosus muscles that control the penis. In male cetaceans, the paired ischiocavernosus muscles insert deeply toward the distal end of the penis, while proximally encapsulating the paired crus of the penis that anchor to each pelvic bone. The ischiocavernosus muscles appear to maneuver the penis by pulling it to one side or the other and may also maintain erection by compressing the corpus cavernosusm proximally. The ischiocavernosus muscles may work in coordination with other soft tissue innovacations to control the penis, which suggests the importance of ischiocavernosus muscles in penis movement." (emphasis mine)

    To someone who believes in creation, as I do, that little detail provided revealed that the seemingly useless bones supposedly left over from a past ancestor are not in fact truly useless at all. "They are a critical component of male reproductive fitness."

    I look forward to reading the book you recommended. I do not claim to know enough- not of evolution nor of the Bible. So I'm open to new thoughts but they must be backed up not in generalities but in the details.

    Frank







  • Jonathan Drake
    Jonathan Drake
    I believe the proof of evolution or creation is in the details.

    But it's not. Evolution is proven by facts regardless of details. I.e., they recently reverse engineered (not sure if correct term) a birds beak into a dinosaur snout. How would this be possible if birds hadn't evolved from dinosaurs?

  • cofty
    cofty

    HMTM - If cetacean pelvic structures had no use they would have disappeared completely. Evolution is very good at finding alternative uses for vestigial structures.

    The proof that whales were once land mammals is in the DNA. Similarly the proof that humans descended from non-human ancestors is in our DNA. It is not just the similarities, it is more importantly the errors.

    In the same way you would prove that students copied each others essays by the common mistakes. Directories sometimes include deliberate rogue entries to prove copyright infringements.

    The sort of evidence is identical to the kind that is used every day to convict rapists and settle paternity claims.

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