Jehovah's Witnesses Rank-and-File Are the Elite Witnesses Pension Plan!

by BucketShopBill 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • BucketShopBill

    It's all about money these days in all the Kingdom Halls and changing Title from the Congregation over to the Watchtower Organization so the Governing Body and all their trusty aids can have a nice retirement. Who is going to provide for all the JWs heading towards retirement age over the next five to ten years, men and women in bad health who must work because the Watchtower through their salesmen (COs, DOs) promised we all would be in God's Paradise and "worrying about material things shows a lack of faith".

    The Governing Body is showing they are worried about money because all they are talking about is "sign the secret envelope and obey the promise you made to donate each month!" What happened to the Bible Students and Watchtower that said "We do not ask for donations nor have we ever passed a plate around?" They pass the plate or hat each month through special parts mentioning the short-falls of each congregation not hitting the promised target they promised they could donate. What about all the JWs who have no money, people who are eating Top Ramen because they can't afford the good things of the World? The GB are traveling and talking about Materialism while the rank-and-file are dead broke except for a few JWs that were smart did not obey the Mad Hatters of New York. What should the JWs with no money do, ask the Government to pick up the tab the Watchtower should or is liable for? I think they should tax the Watchtower for putting people in a situation where they have no money, the GB are greedy bad people!

  • blondie

    Are jws now signing their name to a pledge? I thought it was still anonymous.

  • BucketShopBill

    Hi my Dear Sister Blondie, in the last Kingdom Hall I was in we had three expenditures that were told they had to pledge $48 a month for the Circuit Overseers two houses. The second pledge was $30 for a Kingdom Hall upgrade even though the building was in good shape and up to code. This ruffled many feathers because people were hurting financially. $30 and $48 combined is a pretty big sum to people out of work, and few returned the paper slips with their committments on them. This lead to a scolding talk with the brother stating that (paraphrasing here) if you put Jehovah's name on any endeavor it is destined to succeed, so not supporting such endeavors was going against Jehovah.

    Again, few turned in the slips. A great deal of resentment resulted, because the elders knew who had committed and who didn't (they weren't anonymous). So suddenly those formerly good families were left out of parts, quietly ignored, and outright ousted from the 'favorable' group in the hall.

    What's weird is that everyone knew the details, elders wives and all, and the cooling that went on still hasn't abated.

  • fulltimestudent

    haha, Bill, but isn't the

    Rank-and-File the Elite's (Witnesses) Pension Plan!

    the source of support and life for all clergy ???

    The first Jewish-Christians had to support their new clergy class, and Ananias and Sapphira got into some deep sh*t over it, didn't they???

  • BucketShopBill

    According to the Bible I read Paul supported himself, don't know which Bible you read where Paul was taking cash from people to support the cause.

  • Fernando

    The OP title reads like it belongs on a giant (uncle Sam style) poster, or on a billboard, on the road to a major convention.

  • fulltimestudent


    According to the Bible I read Paul supported himself, don't know which Bible you read where Paul was taking cash from people to support the cause.

    Sure Bill, and the JWs love to quote that when it comes to pioneer's supporting themselves (though as a special pioneer I did get supported (grin) sort of! ).

    But let's take a closer look at early Christians. In addition to the collections in the Jerusalem church early in Acts there were, if you really focus on the activities of the early Christians, you will see a lot of collections and contributing going on across the Christian sub-group.

    So, may i get to reach up and get your Bible off the top shelf, dust it off and open to hmm!, let's start at Roman's 15:26-28..

    26 For Macedonia and Achaia were pleased to make a contribution for the poor among the Lord’s people in Jerusalem. 27 They were pleased to do it, and indeed they owe it to them. For if the Gentiles have shared in the Jews’ spiritual blessings, they owe it to the Jews to share with them their material blessings. 28 So after I have completed this task and have made sure that they have received this contribution, I will go to Spain

    Who was poor (without support) in the Jerusalem congregation? Do you really think that James (who was pre-eminent in the Jerusalem church) was out carpentrying all day, or was he being fed by someone else?

    Now can check for yourself 2 Corinthians 8.

    The Macedonian Christians discussed there are praised by Paul, because even though in deep poverty, they were generous.(vs2), in fact Paul writes, they ...

    2 In the midst of a very severe trial, their overflowing joy and their extreme poverty welled up in rich generosity. 3 For I testify that they gave as much as they were able, and even beyond their ability. Entirely on their own, 4 they urgently pleaded with us for the privilege of sharing in this service to the Lord’s people. 5 And they exceeded our expectations: ... see that you also excel in this grace of giving.

    As you read on in Ch.8 you'll see that Titus got the job of taking the cash to the Corinth congregation.

    But you specifically pointed to Paul, making tents to support himself. The question is whether he did that all the time?

    So let's look in your Bible again (btw, I'm using the NIV), this time at 2 Corinthians 11:8,9:

    Was it a sin for me to lower myself in order to elevate you by preaching the gospel of God to you free of charge? 8 I robbed other churches by receiving support from them so as to serve you. 9 And when I was with you and needed something, I was not a burden to anyone, for the brothers who came from Macedonia supplied what I needed. I have kept myself from being a burden to you in any way, and will continue to do so.

    How would you understand Paul's way of life now?

    For an evangelical Christian view of this topic, you could read this Christian courier article:

    You may also like to read 2 Corinthians ch. 9 with this topic in mind.

    I am not a Christian and I do not really give a rat's arse what they do. Personally, I gave little when I was a JW, mainly because I had little to give. (Note my comment on pioneering). I judge that burst of enthusiasm for Jesus (and, that's who I was trying to emulate) cost me and my then wife, a million bucks in forgone income, something I now deeply regret.

    However, as I said, this matter of asking for money is deeply embedded in religion. You can find something similar in Buddhism.

    In the early church where did they have their meetings? The usual answer is that they met in private homes (house-churches). But poor families were likely to be living (in cities) in one room in tenement buildings. So they depended on wealthy Christians to provide meeting places. In some of the buildings, believed to have been house-churches, there is evidence that the building was extended at times to allow for larger groups to meet. We have no idea how that was paid for. I suspect it was likely a combination of volunteer labour and contributions. Sound familiar?

    Of course, when Christianity became official, real estate was no longer a problem, it is known that Constantine and his family gave land and built very large basilicas for the church commencing an era of government patronage of Christianity. And over in India, King Ashoka - repentent of killing so many people in his wars, played much the same role. In both those cases in the end the money for the sustenance of religion came from people - either as a voluntary contribution or an involuntary one through taxation.

    The witnesses today seem much concerned about real estate, but they are not the first Christians to have that concern

  • BucketShopBill

    Who are we speaking about? In Acts were told from the very begining the donations made by the early Christians were to help all the Jews who came to Jerusalem from the distant providences of the Roman Empire. The donations in Acts 2 were used to help these new converts remain in Jerusalem so they could get more instruction, nothing was used for the Apostles Retirement Package because they all were going to die(except John).

    Acts 2:

    42All the believers devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching, and to fellowship, and to sharing in meals (including the Lord’s Supper i ), and to prayer.

    43A deep sense of awe came over them all, and the apostles performed many miraculous signs and wonders.44And all the believers met together in one place and shared everything they had. 45They sold their property and possessions and shared the money with those in need. 46They worshiped together at the Temple each day, met in homes for the Lord’s Supper, and shared their meals with great joy and generosity j47all the while praising God and enjoying the goodwill of all the people. And each day the Lord added to their fellowship those who were being saved.

    Acts 20:

    25 “And now I know that none of you among whom I went about teaching the Kingdom will ever see me again. 26 Let me say plainly that no man’s blood can be laid at my door, 27 for I didn’t shrink from declaring all God’s message to you.

    28 “And now beware! Be sure that you feed and shepherd God’s flock—his church, purchased with his blood—for the Holy Spirit is holding you responsible as overseers.29 I know full well that after I leave you, false teachers, like vicious wolves, will appear among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Some of you yourselves will distort the truth in order to draw a following. 31 Watch out! Remember the three years I was with you—my constant watchcare over you night and day and my many tears for you.

    32 “And now I entrust you to God and his care and to his wonderful words that are able to build your faith and give you all the inheritance of those who are set apart for himself.

    33 “I have never been hungry for money or fine clothing— 34 you know that these hands of mine worked to pay my own way and even to supply the needs of those who were with me. 35 And I was a constant example to you in helping the poor; for I remembered the words of the Lord Jesus, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’

    1 Thess 2:

    1You yourselves know, dear brothers and sisters, a that our visit to you was not a failure. 2You know how badly we had been treated at Philippi just before we came to you and how much we suffered there. Yet our God gave us the courage to declare his Good News to you boldly, in spite of great opposition. 3So you can see we were not preaching with any deceit or impure motives or trickery.

    4For we speak as messengers approved by God to be entrusted with the Good News. Our purpose is to please God, not people. He alone examines the motives of our hearts. 5Never once did we try to win you with flattery, as you well know. And God is our witness that we were not pretending to be your friends just to get your money! 6As for human praise, we have never sought it from you or anyone else.

    2 Corth 8:

    14 Now I am coming to you again, the third time; and it is still not going to cost you anything, for I don’t want your money. I want you! And anyway, you are my children, and little children don’t pay for their father’s and mother’s food—it’s the other way around; parents supply food for their children. 15 I am glad to give you myself and all I have for your spiritual good, even though it seems that the more I love you, the less you love me.

    16 Some of you are saying, “It’s true that his visits didn’t seem to cost us anything, but he is a sneaky fellow, that Paul, and he fooled us. As sure as anything he must have made money from us some way.”

    17 But how? Did any of the men I sent to you take advantage of you? 18 When I urged Titus to visit you and sent our other brother with him, did they make any profit? No, of course not. For we have the same Holy Spirit and walk in each other’s steps, doing things the same way.

    Taking out the parts of the Bible where the Christians decided to share their monies with believers who were suffering from hard times, there is no evidence the Rank and File Christians were the Apostles Pension Plan!

    The Watchtower would surely love to have this in print but they don't and can't use the Bible to demand the Jewish custom of a Tithe, there's no proof, nothing, nada, zilch!

  • BucketShopBill

    Our Kingdom Hall has done three four or five "private tithes" or "private promises" over the past ten or fifteen years because they can't get the people to donate willingly! JWs as a whole are very stingy, you realize you were probably the only ones who were donating cash for many years to support the World Wide Work. My Aunt use to donate $5 to $10 a month, she made with her husbands five disability and workers compensation pensions around $150,000 a year, not bad for not working!

    her husband is a atheist who attends meetings because he can't stand her going in to her state of deep depression because she is so self-absorbed. He said he would attend Meetings if she stopped crying! He thinks it's all bullshit, guess I should have listened to him twenty years ago, would have saved a good portion of my life! My Aunt, she taught me the truth of how people stab their siblings in the back of the neck, deep up the skull with daggers of deceit. Never could I figure out why my eight Aunts hated her until she stabbed me in the back too for no reason! When my kid watched her place for five days and kept her animals feed and house clean, she gave $10 for 5 days of work. She's the most Fricken Cheapest Bitch you ever saw, so is it any wonder JWs have problems collecting money. My Aunt signed the paper to kiss the COBE's ass but never donated a penny. Mom use to complain what a cheap bitch she was, how dare she go out and teach people about Jesus Christ while being the most selfish hag "mom thought!"

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