Did Jesus preached to the dead souls of Noah’s days?

by raymond frantz 6 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • raymond frantz
    raymond frantz
    Did Jesus preached to the dead souls of Noah’s days?

    In his first letter Peter seems to imply that Jesus immedaiately after his ressurection he preached to the dead souls of Noah's days.In 1 Peter 3:19,20 we read :"And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison,who had formerly been disobedient when God was patiently waiting in Noah’s day,while the ark was being constructed,in which a few people, that is, eight souls,* were carried safely through the water."

    The following post offers insight to these obscure verses ...(click the link)

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    I looked up the Apostles Creed in my Book of Common Prayer. The creed says that you believe God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth; And in Jesus Christ his only Son our Lord...suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried. He descended into hell....I was taught that hell was separation from God. I believe it is Roman Catholic legend that he stayed in hell to preach and save previous generations so they could be resurrected. I don't understand the Noah reference.

    I can't find the Nicene Creed. My browser doesn't let me copy and paste.

    I was not at Jesus' side when he was in hell so I don't know what he did.

  • raymond frantz
    raymond frantz

    Peter talks about the spirits in prison from the days of Noah's days .Many Bible commentators believe that these are the souls of people who rejected God back in the days of Noah (biblehub.com) .Nevertheless a careful consideration of the verses shows that the only spirits ever locked away in the New Testament is in relation to demons and not dead people .Also the verses in Peter use 2 different words to describe Noah and his family(=psykhai=souls) where as the spirits in prison (=pneumasin=spirits) which further supports the explanation about spiritual beings not human souls

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    A post on Tartarus from our very own Leolaia : "

    Yeah, that Tartarus reference is an interesting one. That allusion in 2 Peter 2:4 represents a reworking of the very Enochic allusion in Jude 6 (as delineated above); the priority of Jude over 2 Peter is especially apparent in how the Petrine author blurred or omitted altogether the allusions to 1 Enoch and the Assumption of Moses. The reference to "Tartartus" (actually it is a verb here, tartaroun"cast into Tartarus") however is quite in keeping with 1 Enoch, where "Tartarus" appears in 1 Enoch 20:2although it appears in the LXX as well (Job 40:20, 41:24 LXX, Proberbs 30:16 LXX). The verbal form doesn't occur in the LXX or the Greek version of 1 Enoch but is solely restricted to pagan references to the Tartarus myth. And it is also very interesting that there is a probable allusion to the Tartarus myth in the original version of the text in Jude 6. There the author says that the imprisoned angels are kept "under nether blackness" (hupo zophon). The Enochic texts use skotos "darkness" to refer to the gloom of the angelic prison, although zophos does occur elsewhere in 1 Enoch, specifically in ch. 17, where it refers to the "place of black darkness" (zophódé topon) at the extremities of the world, near where the gloom of "the great darkness" (tou megalou skotous) is found (v. 2, 6). But we find both "under nether blackness" (hupo zophon) and "chains" (desmois), the two expressions found in Jude 6, used together in Hesiod in his classical telling of the Tartarus myth:

    "[They] overshadowed the Titans with their missiles, and buried them beneath the wide-pathed earth, and bound them in bitter chains (desmoisin) when they had conquered them by their strength for all their great spirit, as far beneath the earth to Tartarus.... There by the counsel of Zeus who drives the clouds, the Titan gods (theoi Titénes) are hidden under black darkness (hupo zophó), in a dank place where the ends of the huge earth meet" (Hesiod, Theogonia 715-730).

    The Society ignores all this and metaphorically refers to a "spritual state of debasement" of the fallen angels. The reason for this interpretation is their identification of the demons with the fallen angels and not the souls of the drowned Nephilim, as in Enochic and subsequent literature (including the NT). If the fallen angels were bound and imprisoned in an abyss (just as the Devil is supposed to be at the end times, according to Revelation), then they wouldn't be around possessing and bothering people. Rather the ancient Jewish-Christian belief was that the demons look for fleshly bodies to dwell in because they lost their original bodies in the Flood when the Nephilim drowned (which is why the legion of demons proceed to drown themselves when they possess a herd of swine in Mark 9).

  • John_Mann
    John_Mann

    Why Jesus would preach to demons?

    It's senseless in any bible interpretation, specially in JW.org theology.

    The demons ALREADY know the good news as is stated several times in the bible.

    It would only make sense to preach to people who doesn't know the good news.

    This verse is a hot potato to JW.org because it clears show Jesus preaching to dead people (in a kind of isolated limbo).

  • raymond frantz
    raymond frantz

    good observation John-Mann ,why on earth would Jesus preach the good news to demons ? The Greek word for good news is (ev-aggelion) whereas preaching the good news (ev-ag-ge-li-zo-mai') .Peter used none of these words instead he used the word Ke·rys′so, in general, means “proclaim” (good or bad news), as distinguished from eu·ag·ge·li′zo·mai, “declare good news.” Noah was a preacher (or herald, ke′ryx) to the antediluvian world, warning them. (2Pe 2:5) Christ preached (like a herald) to the spirits in prison, but not the good news.(1Pe 3:18, 19).What was preached to “spirits in prison” must therefore have been a message of judgment .

    All these observation are part of my original post :

    Did Jesus preach to the dead souls of people from Noah's days?

  • raymond frantz
    raymond frantz

    Also in reference to Leolaia 's comments the demons were not in Tartarus during Jesus 's time here on earth as Matthew 8:29 shows:" And look! they screamed, saying: “What have we to do with you, Son of God?+Did you come here to torment us+ before the appointed time?”The demons were allowed to roam free here on earth and didn't expect to be torment until the appointed time"

    Also

    Mark 5:7-10 7 Then he cried out with a loud voice: “What have I to do with you, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I put you under oath by God not to torment me.”+ 8 For Jesus had been saying to it: “Come out of the man, you unclean spirit.”+ 9 But Jesus asked him: “What is your name?” And he replied: “My name is Legion, because there are many of us.” 10 And he kept pleading with Jesus not to send the spirits out of the country.(=to some distant place)

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