Is Jesus the "lowliest...."

by SixofNine 5 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    the reasoning book says, " the Bible's description of Jesus shows that he was indeed "the lowliest one of mankind". It references Phil.2: 7,8 and Matt. 11:28-30 to prove it.

    I've never thought of Jesus as the "lowliest of mankind", and those scriptures dont' indicate to me that I ought to.

    What about you?

    This is from the reasoning books arguments for the 1914 chronology. They say that "vs. 3 and 17 (of Daniel 4:1-17) show that the dream that God gave to King Nebuchadnezzar deals with the Kingdom of God and God's promise to give it "to the one whom he wants to...even the lowliest one of mankind."

    I see two problems here. 1)Jesus is not painted as "the lowliest one of mankind" (from what I can see) in the bible. 2)Dan. 4:3,17 doesn't really clearly (if at all) indicate a second fulfillment.

    comments cheers or jeers?

    Edited by - SixofNine on 21 February 2001 22:26:48

  • Jr
    Jr

    Hi,
    would you be willing to serve the "lowliest one" of mankind?? Have you given much thought as to what that really means? Think about it! Who might be the lowliest of mandkind? Obviously someone that is despised, not well respected in general. What appearance would he have? What kind of intellect would he reflect? It would serve Jehovah's purpose to have us serve an imperfect man that nobody though much of. It would correct many bad attitudes that people have. It would also be a MAJOR test. I agree with you. Jesus is definitely not the lowliest. But Lord help us, if Jesus is not, who is??? The bible does indicate it to be someone other than Jesus. (Isa 49:1-9)

    JR

    Edited by - Jr on 22 February 2001 15:24:23

  • bjc2012
    bjc2012

    Hi SixofNine,

    The dream described in Daniel chapter 4 does appear to be about rulership, that is, rulership that is under the control of the Almighty God. It deals with more than the relatively short reign of Nebuchadnezzar and his successors. The question then would be does this dream have anything to do with the kingdom of Israel as the WTS claims.

    Jehovah did make a promise to David that one of his seed would sit on the throne ‘to time indefinite’ and that he would have subjects from ‘sea to sea’ and from ‘the river to the ends of the earth.’ (See 2 Samuel 7:10-16; Psalms 72:8-11) This promise has yet to be fulfilled as it concerns an earthly government not a heavenly one. These verses could very well apply to the tearing down of, but leaving the rootstock and banding it, and the subsequent resprouting of the kingdom of Israel that would fulfill these prophesies.

    The tree was banded using two different types of metals, iron and copper, the significance of which I believe can be explained by considering the vision in Daniel chapter 2. In this vision, an image is described using four types of metal: gold, silver, copper, and iron. I think we can safely say that the gold represented Babylon’s kings. Babylon was the kingdom Jehovah used to cut down the kingdom of Israel. The silver represents Medo-Persia, the kingdom that was used to free Israel from captivity to Babylon. Although they were allowed the freedom to restore true worship and rebuild the temple, they were not allowed to reestablish a kingdom. They were continually dominated by the silver part of the image. The kingdom of Israel was to be further held down by the copper and iron bands.

    The copper is said to represent the Grecian Empire begun by Alexander the Great and the iron, the Roman Empire. Now I question that the iron represents the Roman Empire only. No one can accuse Briton (UK) of being weak as is described by the feet and toes of iron and clay mixed. They ruled an empire such that it was said that ‘the sun never set on the British Empire.’ They were truly iron-like. And the same can be said for America. I therefore conclude that the legs of iron represent the Roman as well as the British/American Empires. If I am correct, then when the kingdom represented by the feet and toes ‘partly of iron and partly of clay’ emerges, then the bands would have been removed from the rootstock. Daniel 2:44 will have its fulfillment. Many scholars believe that this combination of iron and clay represent a federation of nations that join together but do not have the toughness of iron to rule with the strength of the previous kingdoms. In fact, if the ten toes have any meaning, then we might expect there to be a federation of 10 or more nations joining together to form a kingdom, but these nations will not prove to be ‘sticking together as iron is not mixing with molded clay.’ As Daniel describes it, ‘it will be partly strong and partly fragile.’ I say 10 or more because Daniel 7:8 shows a “small horn coming in among them and there were three of the first horns that were plucked up from before it.”

    In harmony with your suggestion that ‘the lowliest one’ does not refer to Jesus, I checked Strong’s Concordance and found that the word translated ‘lowliest’ means ‘basest.’ And I certainly agree that you could never apply the word ‘base’ to a perfect man as Jesus had been. You’d have to look elsewhere for an application other than the application to Nebuchadnezzar himself.

    bjc

  • mommy
    mommy

    My interpratation is a little different....
    In the first verse we see that Humpty Dumpty sat on the wall...I don't know how tall this wall is or how he got up there, let's take a look in the second verse
    Humpty Dumpty had a great fall......Oh I see "great" so it must have been pretty steep, Gee I wonder what happened let's go on to verse 3
    All the kings horses and all the kings men.....He was surrounded by the enemy! Oh no I wonder what happens next, on to verse 4
    Couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back together again.......So is that it it is all over? He fell off the wall shattered?
    Shaking my head at people trying to figure out another persons written words.
    wendy
    ps sorry to all I offended I couldn't resist!!!!!

    Edited by - MOMMY on 23 February 2001 14:11:56

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Thank you mommy, I wondered where the lid to that can of worms had rolled.

    Thanks for injecting a little sanity into the discussion as well (although I would still love to hear some "just folks" type comments on the matter).

    Ah, the cacophony of minor prophets singing in a major (off) key.

    [cacophony]--go check out the root of that word. It brought new, expanded meaning to my little sentence that I hadn't even imagined!

  • mommy
    mommy

    So why is everyone silent?
    I want summat answers.(Mommy trying to speak australian)
    wendy

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