It's impossible for God to lie!

by Matty 2 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Matty

    Bit of background from a previous thread:

    Is the bible saying that God cannot physically lie, or that he simply chooses not to? Satan is supposedly the “father of the lie”. Why is a lie spoken of as something material as if it is physically impossible for someone like God to convey any kind of fabrication? How can one person invent something in this way? Hebrews 6:17-18 says “In this manner God, when he purposed to demonstrate more abundantly to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of his counsel, stepped in with an oath, in order that, through two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to the refuge may have strong encouragement to lay hold on the hope set before us”

    But we all know instances where this statement is stretched to breaking point. What about 1st Kings 22 where it speaks about King Ahab. His own rent-a-prophets guaranteed Ahab success in the war against Ramoth-gilead, whilst God’s own prophet Micaiah prophesied disaster for Ahab. In this circumstance God physically made Ahab’s prophets lie – oh, yes it was the prophets that physically spoke, but there is no doubt that God was the one making them lie, and because of it, Ahab paid with his life. And later Ezekiel 14:9 very clearly says “And as for the prophet, in case he gets fooled and actually speaks a word, I myself, Jehovah, have fooled that prophet”. What is the difference between “fooling someone” and lying? It’s all about playing with words. There are circumstances where God is supposed to manipulate events on the earth to fulfill prophecy. We are all waiting for the supposed “Great Tribulation” where God will get the governments of the world to do his dirty work for him. This will inevitably involve duplicity of some kind, but God will be pulling all the strings.

    If a ventriloquist gets his dummy to tell lies, who is actually telling the lies? Is it Keith Harris or is it Orville the duck who is (Who?! Type it in Google) actually calling the shots? Orville could fly if he wanted to – but Harris won’t let him!

    All the manipulation and double-dealing by God in the bible really gets on my nerves. Oh, it’s all explained away very nicely by the WTS, - they call it an “operation of error“, but none of the explanations wash as far as I’m concerned.

  • SpiceItUp

    Good thoughts. I am thinking of bringing this one to my dads attention to see what his response is.

    Also what about the god that is omnipotent, all-knowing etc did he actually forsee the choice that Adam would make and if he did then he knew all the suffering that would happen but allowed it to happen regardlessly.

    And if god does know all would that take away free-will?

    thoughts to ponder.

  • Matty

    Thank you for breaking my duck on this one Spicey - I wrote this well over a year ago and got no replies!

    My argument was always the fact that Jehovah supposedly cannot, and does not have the ability to lie in any way, but created creatures with at least the potential to lie, so it must have been a potential concept even when he created a "perfect" world.

    It just doesn't make any sense to me in the same way that Satan supposedly cannot read your mind but can see your expressions on your face and stuff. At the same time he can still send his demons to invade your body if he deems fit. It's just all so nonsensical to me now.

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