Just can’t leave this IQ thing alone, but rather than defile Mystikool’s thread anymore, I will start anew. Larc, as a professional in this field has been patient with my naivete on the subject and as copied below, has noted a few of the conclusions reached by the behavioral sciences.
I remain an unbeliever.
I remain skeptical of the Intelligence Quotient Test concept of testing intelligence.
As noted below, Larc describes some of my examples to illustrate intelligence that would not be discovered by an I.Q. test as merely examples of cognition or sensation, not intellect. Okaaaaaay.
Does it really matter HOW the human mind assimilates and processes information?
Let me take one last unprofessional, awkward stab at this subject. This will be more personal than I’m accustomed to getting on this board, but what the hell?
As a child, probably not unlike many on this board, I tested very high on the traditional I.Q. test given in the early 50’s and was “promoted” a couple of school grades. Shooting ahead of the pack as a pre-teen, I exhausted the school curriculum available then and waited for more challenges. Entering high school, the “armageddon is around the corner” mentality kicked in and I lost total interest, never picking up a school book for study, although I spent study hall in the library reading what interested me.
Even without academic credentials, I was what Arkies call “book smart” and they don’t mean that as a complement.
Let me illustrate with a real life example:
Almost thirty years ago, my wife and I and our young son were working rural territory in field service when our Chevrolet Vega refused to start.(This particular car speaks volumes about the IQ of the designer and purchaser).
An old farmer in bib overalls approached us as he heard the starter grinding with no response. His first question: “Boy, what are you doin’ out here in the middle of nowhere?”
He motioned for me to unlock the hood from inside and he lifted it up. After asking me to crank it a couple of times, he raised his hand in a stop motion. “Fuel pump”, he offered. “In this car, its in the gas tank. A hell of a mess.”
He walked back to his truck and brought a gallon gas can, some rubber hose and rags. In about 10 minutes he rigged an auxiliary gravity-flow fuel system on the car.
“Drive slow” was all he said.
My wife and I were dumbfounded as we made it back into town safely.
If this gentleman and I had submitted ourselves to an IQ test, I have no doubt who would have the highest score.
So I cast my vote for the Robinson Crusoe Test. Do you have the resourcefulness to survive? Perhaps, physical dexterity plays a role in that. Or cognition. The senses.
Anyway.
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Just noticed this thread, so I am unaware of what may have prompted it. But, I do agree that the so-called Intelligence Quotient is so limited in scope so as to be almost useless in measuring any real capacity for learning or aptitude.
quote:
Over the decades, the tests a have been redefined because of the way the questions were worded - and the subjects asked about. Obviously, a non-white from a foreign country, not speaking English, little school education wouldn't fare well on a test prior to the 60's/70's. And they didn't - bias was found, and tried to be corrected.
Thank you, waiting, for that insight. But still. . . the whole concept, as well as its implementation is flawed.
The aboriginal tribesman can "smell" rain in a cloud twenty kilometers away or distinguish between dozens of poisonous or non-poisonous roots and some who are poisonous fresh, but innocuous after drying. How quickly his offspring pick up these skills may well determine their capacity to learn.
And what about the wide variance in aptitude? Would it surprise you to know that Wehrner Von Brahn had trouble keeping his shoes tied?
TMS
TMS,
Many people share your view of IQ tests. People in general treat them with suspicion, and among the intelligencia, they are a popular item of critcism.
Now, before you put them in a place of no value, you might want to interview the following people:
The school psychologist who is trying to figure out why a particular student is not doing well in school
The forensic psychologist who is trying to determine if a person is mentally competent to stand trial
The school counselor who is trying to convince a JW student to take a scholarship and go to college
The employer who is trying to build a capable work force, so that he can have a successful business
IQ tests are a tool. Like any tool, whether it is a screw driver, a yard stick, or an IQ test, they should be used properly, and used for their intended purpose.
Larc,
You certainly have given more thought to these matters than I have. But I took the mental liberty(due to a bit of insomnia) of juxtaposing onto your scenario one of mine.
quote:
TMS,
Many people share your view of IQ tests. People in general treat them with suspicion, and among the intelligencia, they are a popular item of critcism.
Now, before you put them in a place of no value, you might want to interview the following people:
The school psychologist who is trying to figure out why a particular student is not doing well in school
The forensic psychologist who is trying to determine if a person is mentally competent to stand trial
The school counselor who is trying to convince a JW student to take a scholarship and go to college
The employer who is trying to build a capable work force, so that he can have a successful business
IQ tests are a tool. Like any tool, whether it is a screw driver, a yard stick, or an IQ test, they should be used properly, and used for their intended purpose.
In my imagination, I transported an aboriginal youth and Theodore Bundy to your classroom and sat them in front of you in two parallel student desks facing your teacher's desk. You handed each of them a copy of your Intelligence Quotient Test and a No.2 pencil and turned the hour glass up side down.
Eagerly awaiting the test results were several individuals, who sat in an adjoining room behind one way glass: a school psychologist, a psychologist, working for the court system, a school counselor and a job interviewer. All eagerly awaited the test results for their varied agendas.
I'm going to take this scenario to bed with me and sleep on the results.
Take care, my friend.
TMS,
I am back. I wanted to address your three examples of skill or lack thereof. Your first one was of an aboriginese who could smell rain coming from some distance. This is primarily a skill of the senses and would probably not correlate highly with cognitive skills. Your second example of recognizing poinsonous snakes and how to properly prepare them is a learned behaviour and probably would correlate with measures of intelligence. Your third example is of a very bright person who had trouble tying their shoes. Tying shoes is a perceptual motor skill and also would not correlate hightly with cognitive functioning.
TMS