by TD 5 Replies latest jw friends

  • TD

    Stapelia is a genus of South American succulents that make unusual looking flowers:

    Besides the appearance, these flowers are interesting because instead of being pollenated by bees, they are pollenated flies.

    So instead of giving off a sweet scent to attract bees, all but one species gives off the smell of decaying flesh.

    Stapelia blooms are sometimes called Carrion flowers for that reason.

    (This one was blooming in my house this morning and I had to put it outside....)

    This raises an interesting question regarding the JW faith:

    Did Jehovah design this?

    If He did, then the antediluvian ecology was obviously not vegetarian as the JW's teach. Animals died; their bodies decayed and insects at the very least ate of this flesh.

    If He did not, then design obviously does not require a Designer, does it? Beneficial and downright clever relationships between animals and plants can arise entirely by themselves with no help from Jehovah at all. And all the 'Chicken and egg' style of arguments that JW's rally against other examples of evolution (e.g. Who was pollenating Stapelia during the many years they were evolving a nasty smelling bloom to attract flies?) fall flat in the face of one simple challenge:

    Take a whiff of this flower and tell me it didn't happen.

  • tornapart

    I was wondering the same thing the other day TD, brought on by coming across the 'white egret' orchid.. there's other orchids that are similar, the 'flying duck' orchid, the 'bee' orchid, the 'dove' orchid, the 'monkey face' orchid, the 'fly' orchid, the 'bird' orchid and several others... there's even a 'naked man' orchid!! LOL

    So.. designed or evolved? Not a question I can answer anyway!!

    Love your photo btw, not sure I'd want to smell it though!

  • prologos

    I am thinking of a designer a notch or two above the hunched over the drawing boart, slide rule type. (my age showing) make that computers.

    a designer that can do that across the big bang barrier and have it all build into the laws, the vibes, the whole functions.

  • St George of England
    St George of England

    If vegetation was created on Day 3 and animals on Day 6, what did these plants live on for 'thousands of years'?


  • TD
    So.. designed or evolved? Not a question I can answer anyway!!

    That why I like this type of example. Regardless of which side a person takes, both sides can agree that the JW brand of creation is incompatible with their belief in an all vegegtarian antediluvian ecology.

    Things that very obviously are not vegetarian in origin (i.e. Sea anemone and Anemone shrimp; Shark and cleaner fish, etc.) are praised in one publication as evidence of a wise Creator and denigrated by implication in another as the unplanned consequences of an original purpose gone awry.

    They don't think their own creation argument completely through and that lapse trips them up over and over.

  • Heaven

    I have to go with evolved. Religion is just making up stuff as it goes along. The Christian faiths being based on the Bible are all flawed because the Bible is flawed.

    For example, according to the Bible, the sun was created on Day 4.

    But it also states that God created 'the day' and 'the night' on the first day. Plants were created on Day 3.

    How is it possible to have day and night and plants without the sun?

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