Witnessing to a Theologian

exWTslave

When I found my fellow traveler reading Theology Today magazine, my pioneer spirit acted. I started witnessing to him without knowing he was a professor of Theology. He patiently listened to me. When I concluded, he started witnessing back to me. He said his own fleshly brother is a JW hence is familiar with JWs teaching. "Now listen to me carefully. I will give you some points for thought, not for arguing.

You people base all your teachings on the Bible whereas we base all our teachings both on Bible and tradition. That’s because Bible is inadequate on many counts. It can be used to preach from the pulpit—taking a portion/story from it and making practical application for the flock. But building an organization on its prophesies or building a career on it like you and my fleshly brother (who are pioneers) is not wise. For example, apostle Paul believed the end would come in the first century. (1 Corinthians 10:11)

Now take a Gospel as sample! Luke claims “accuracy” and “logical order” in his Gospel, (Luke 1:3) yet you will wonder how ‘accurate’ and how ‘logical’ his accounts are!

1) God rated Mary as “highly favored” or trustworthy (Luke 1:28), yet she did not bother to ensure that child Jesus was with her when she left the temple. (Luke 2:43) She realized child Jesus was not with her only after “one day.” (Luke 2:44) When found him after two days of searching, she was blaming child Jesus and he was blaming the parents. (Luke 2:48)

2) God’s Spirit led Jesus “into the wilderness” to be “tempted by the devil.” (Luke 4:1, 2) This is not “in order” because God will not lead anyone into temptation. (James 1:14) Then, Satan led Jesus “up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world.” (Luke 4:5) This is also not logical. Because Luke does not know that Satan is the creation of primitive human mind who did not know the shape of the earth! Here Satan unwittingly reflects the erroneous belief that earth is flat, hence he had to take Jesus into a high mountain so that both can see all the kingdoms of the earth. If Satan is real, a spirit person originally from Heaven, he should have known the true shape of earth! Satan offered all the Kingdoms of the world to Jesus in exchange for an act of worship. This too is not in order nor logical, because Jesus already knew that he has been promised “eternal kingship” by God Himself. (Luke 1:32, 33) And asking a person like Jesus to “convert stone into bread, and jump from temple top” does not befit the kind of spirit person called Satan.

3) When criticized by the Pharisees on petty matter (picking grain on Sabbath), Jesus tried to offer the counter, citing example of David whom God Himself rated as not being ideal (2 Sam 7:12, 13) Jesus’s logic was: If David can violate a law, we can also! (Luke 6:1-5) Who is unreasonable here—Pharisees or Jesus?

4) Hearing Jesus resurrected a widow’s son in Nain, the world became so excited, yet John the Baptist (Jesus’s own relative) doubts and “ask, “Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?” (Luke 7:11-19) What logic is it?

5) “One day Jesus said to his disciples, “Let us go over to the other side of the lake.” So they got into a boat and set out. As they sailed, he fell asleep. A squall came down on the lake, so that the boat was being swamped, and they were in great danger. The disciples went and woke him, saying, “Master, Master, we’re going to drown!” (Luke 8:22-24) That Jesus could not discern, in advance, a storm is not in order. (Storm can be discerned in advance and precisely be calculated when it will hit. http://www.eo.ucar.edu/kids/dangerwx/tstorm6.htm) Even when “the boat was being swamped” he did not get up on his own—this too is not in order as he was a perfect man with perfect sensitivity! Then he rebuked the wind and the raging waters; the storm subsided, and all was calm. In fear and amazement they asked one another, “Who is this? He commands even the winds and the water, and they obey him.” (Luke 8:26) Disciples who witnessed firsthand “the winds and the water” obeying Jesus abandoned him when he was caught by his enemies towards the end of his ministry—this too is not in order!"

He said: "We can go on and on 6) 7) 8) ......"

I responded with the usual WT conclusion. However, I knew that somewhere at the back of my mind I have started agreeing with him.

Laika

I find it very strange that you choose to share your theological convictions in the context of a fictional conversation.

Ucantnome

i know of three theologians who have very different viewpoints.

exWTslave

Laika,

What is even STRANGER is that Luke claims his account is accurate and logical, yet his writings are shadowed by many things illogical. I am thankful to that Theologian (who is recently made a Bishop) who was only trying to help me, and I was really helped. I do not want to embarass him by revealing his name.

Jon Preston

Marked

Band on the Run

Why would the bishop be embarassed?

Cold Steel

1) God rated Mary as “highly favored” or trustworthy (Luke 1:28), yet she did not bother to ensure that child Jesus was with her when she left the temple.

Actually, tradition has it that Jesus was thought to be in the company of other relatives. Mary’s concern came when she discovered he wasn’t with them. The theologian was correct in his assessment that the Bible isn’t complete and that there are holes in it. It was never meant to be a handbook. No instructions for baptism, no description of church officers' duties, no instructions on how to ordain, who can do what ordinances and many other things.

2) God’s Spirit led Jesus “into the wilderness” to be “tempted by the devil.” (Luke 4:1, 2) This is not “in order” because God will not lead anyone into temptation. (James 1:14)

The Father did not lead Jesus into the wilderness to be tempted. He went into the wilderness to fast and perhaps to gain knowledge in the way the ancient prophets did. It was only after his 40-day fast that Satan came to tempt him. Although Jesus was divine in nature, he had to learn in mortality the same way everyone else does, line upon line, precept upon precept. What he experienced during the 40 days is not recorded, but it was important for Jesus to fully understand the power and determination of the Adversary.

3) When criticized by the Pharisees on petty matter (picking grain on Sabbath), Jesus tried to offer the counter, citing example of David whom God Himself rated as not being ideal (2 Sam 7:12, 13) Jesus’ logic was: If David can violate a law, we can also! (Luke 6:1-5) Who is unreasonable here—Pharisees or Jesus?

This is ridiculous, and the theologian has completely missed the point. Luke states: “And it came to pass on the second sabbath after the first, that he went through the corn fields; and his disciples plucked the ears of corn, and did eat, rubbing them in their hands. And certain of the Pharisees said unto them, Why do ye that which is not lawful to do on the sabbath days?” The theologian should not assume that what Jesus and his disciples did was in violation of the law. It was a violation of the law as interpreted by the Pharisees, and the fact that there had been no prophets in Israel for more than 400 years. Jesus and his disciples were hungry, and of course “corn” in this sense was wheat. Under the law, farmers had to leave a portion of their crops open to the hungry. The point wasn’t that since David did it, it was okay for Jesus to do it. It was that the sabbath was made for man, and not vice versa. And, as Jesus was Yahweh before his birth in mortality, he was the one who gave the law and it was he who was the Lord of the Sabbath. How could a trained theologian miss such an obvious point?

5) “One day Jesus said to his disciples, “Let us go over to the other side of the lake.” So they got into a boat and set out. As they sailed, he fell asleep. A squall came down on the lake, so that the boat was being swamped, and they were in great danger. The disciples went and woke him, saying, “Master, Master, we’re going to drown!” (Luke 8:22-24) That Jesus could not discern, in advance, a storm is not in order. (Storm can be discerned in advance and precisely be calculated when it will hit.)

When the apostles asked the Lord, “Master, who did sin, this man or his parents that he was born blind?” — Jesus replied: “Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.” One might reasonably expect this was also true of the storm. Jesus also is the Lord of Creation and has power over the elements. No one was killed or injured, and the works of the Father were made manifest in the storm. That a learned theologian could miss this point raises grave doubts about his education.

And we can go on....

.

Band on the Run

Wow. Cold Steel,

Your awesome post blew me away. Now I know never to trust any theologian again. I am so ll....y to be on this board during your tenure here. Yes, there is only one way of viewing this material. You are right. Everyone else is wrong. Have you considered becoming a JW b/c your forthrightness would be appreciated.

Cold Steel

Hey, I only post my opinion like anyone else. Other opinions may vary.

Witnessing to a Theologian

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