Have you ever wondered about the math?

by stillin 6 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  stillin

  This is strictly academic, but I have wondered whether the 144,000 might have been realized long ago. We know from scripture that there were thousands "added" in the first century, and that according to the FDS they were all of the anointed, heavenly-hope class. OK, thousands. Then a smattering across the 1900 years before the "modern day faithful" arrived on the scene, when? the 1870's, right? Since then the distinguishing of the anointed from the great crowd in 1935 and the organization has kept track of the two groups. Full census always being kept, right? The yearbook and annual reports of those partaking of the emblems.

  Any mathematicians here? If you calculate the average death rate into the total number of anointed reported since the 1870's, up to our current day, and add everything up, isn't 144,000 a skimpy number? Wouldn't this imply that either the number is symbolic, or many have been either mistaken about their "calling" or there is cognitive dissonance on the organizational level?

  it seems far-fetched that little me could have crossed paths with dozens of people who are of this tiny, elite group, out of the billions of people who have lived since the first century.
• 

  Crazyguy

  There was one case in Egypt were 140 thousand christians were crucified, meaning they were martyred for their faith in christ. In the book of Revelations I believe in chapter 20 it says those that have been martyrd will be the judges. Meanwhile JW leaders like Rutherford or maybe it was Franz stated that these christians were not christian enough because they were not 'foot step followers' of christ. And we just had another one of these great foot step followers of christ just die Pierce. Was he martyred, no died of old age like all the rest. So will they be resurrected to be Kings over us and Judge us, according to them yes, according to the bible no!!!!!
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  sparrowdown

  Hi stillin,

  Math not a strong suit of mine (I'll tell ya that for nothin), but yes I too have always felt that if 144000 is literal then it seems ludicrously small number relative to earths poulation over the centuries. Let alone most of the new testament only talking to this tiny group. Talk about elitist.

  cheers

  sparrow
• 

  LostGeneration

  Look up user Moshe, I think he actually had an actuary look at JW number when it comes to the 144k and had him figure out if the WTS was lying. They were of course, as there was no way the math would work, and this was back in the 80s.
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  Splash

  In 1925 there were 90,434 partakers, everyone who attended partook.

  In 1935 there were 52,465 partakers, interestingly out of 63,146 attenders!

  Add to this last years figure of 11,824 who would not be in the 1935 figure, and you're up to 64,289 partakers in the last 100 years (ish)

  144,000 - 64,289 = 79,700 partakers between the first century and the 1935.

  But in the first century there were 3,000 baptized in Acts 2:41;

  "All of Samaria, both men and women" were baptized in Acts 8:9-12;

  and "many Corinthians" in Acts 18:8-11 which took 1.5 years.
  
  There are also many congregations mentioned in the scriptures, some written to, all full of baptized (anointed) people:
  There were "many in Joppa" (Acts 9:42),

  "a great number from Antioch" (Acts 11:21),

  "a great multitude in Iconium" (Acts 14:1),

  "quite a few in Derbe" (Acts 14:21),

  "a great multitude" in Thessalonica (Acts 17:4),

  "Many" in Beroea (Acts 17:12),

  "Jews and Greeks" in Corinth (Acts 18:4), and

  "many thousands (literally 'myriads' - 10,000's) of Jews" (Acts 21:20).

  Tacitus says that under Nero (2nd century) "a great multitude" of christians were executed.
  During the many persecutions under Maximus, 1,900 Christians were martyred in Sicily alone.
  Diocletian (3rd century) killed 17,000 in one month.
  Eusebius says that during one of the persecutions, ten thousand men (not counting women and children) were killed in Egypt. The executioners blunted their swords and had to work in relays.
  
  How many does that make?

  Splash
• 

  Band on the Run

  When I was young (1950s), remnant were only from my great grandfather's age. I am not certain why. It would be rare for someone my gm's age to see themselves as remnant. There were family "discussions." She was annoyed that Bethel backed my ggf's claim. When the emblems used to be passed around, only ancient people appeared to partake.

  When my ggf died, I was upset that he could see me from heaven. 144,000 would have been made back then. I could be wrong but most elderly people seemed to see themselves as partakers. I recall hype about how close we were to Armageddon back then based on remnant numbers.

  Suddenly, out of no place, my overseer declared he was remnant at age 35. We all laughed what Bethel was going to do to him. The idea of his being booted pleased us. Well, Bethel took his side b/c another congregation member complained to Bethel. I don't recall any special meetings or magazines but I was very bored.

  Why would anyone want to be in heaven? I was doing a countdown as a child. Each death meant we were closer to A. which I did not want to happen.
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  prologos

  THis is not a question of math. It is question of mis-understanding a possibly phantasized story.

  The 144 000 of rev 7 are NOT anointed but SEALED.

  Not all early Christians, although ALL PARTAKERS were of the 144 000 sealed. Stephen was.

  Egomaniacs taught that all happened in our (their) lifetime.

  thousands in the beginning? over 10 000 now? partaker count?

  7 'anointed' per year during the greatest struglle for right, truth? martyrdom?

  PERHAPS:

  WT = W-rong T-heories ?

  W-hacky T-heology ?