"So you are an atheist. So would you kill me if it were to your advantage?"

by OnTheWayOut 29 Replies latest jw friends

  • OnTheWayOut

    I worked a different shift. I knew the people I worked with, but not as well as I could have.

    Anyway, religion comes up. One guy mentions in front of another that I wrote a book about my religious experience. The other guy (we will call him "Ignorance") wants to know what religion I was. I said I used to be a Jehovah's Witness and my wife still is one.

    Ignorance: So you wore a white shirt and black tie and rode a bicycle?

    OTWO: No, that's the Mormons.

    Ignorance: What's the difference?

    OTWO: Mormons teach that Jesus came to America after he was killed and the whole thing was supposedly revealed to Joseph Smith many hundreds of years later. Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the end of the world is coming any minute now.

    Ignorance: But the end of the world is coming soon. It's in the Bible.

    OTWO: Really, where?

    Ignorance: I don't know, but I hear it's in there somewhere. So you used to be a Jehovah's Witness. So do they believe the Bible?

    OTWO: Yes, they are pretty literal about the Bible and follow it. They think that much of the Bible pointed to their religion returning true worship on the earth in the 20th century before the end of the world.

    Ignorance: Well, so you don't think the end of the world is coming?

    OTWO: No. People have been saying the end is coming for as long as religion existed, Christians have been saying it for 2000 years.

    Ignorance: But you do believe in God, don't you?

    OTWO: No, not anymore. I reviewed the Bible and other religions and all the gods were invented by men.

    Ignorance: How can you say that? The Bible has been proven to be right?

    OTWO: What part is proven?

    Ignorance: I don't know. But it has.

    OTWO: So you just take someone else's word for it. If it's true, you should be reading it and know what it says.

    Ignorance: That's for the preachers to do. But I know God exists. And the Bible is true.

    OTWO: So it couldn't be some other Holy books that are true? It's got to be the Bible?

    Ignorance: Well, God speaks truth to different people different ways. But science knows Jesus was real.

    OTWO: How so?

    Ignorance: I don't know, but the preachers say that's true and I know it's true. Plus, people need God or else they have no morals. So would you kill me if it were to your advantage?"

    OTWO: WTF? (From now on, I will say "Watch Tower Farms" when I want to say WTF.) Why would I kill you for what advantage?

    Ignorance: If I had something you wanted and we were alone, wouldn't you as an atheist simply follow logic and kill me and take it?

    OTWO: No. But I see that you automatically assume that I have no morals since I don't believe in God. Is that right?

    Ignorance: Well, yeah. You have no belief in heaven and hell, so you can do what you want. You don't accept the rules in the Bible, so you feel free to do what you want.

    OTWO: I have morals. I want to do what is right. You don't even know the Bible and you tell me that I won't follow the rules in it. Do you know the rules?

    Ignorance: Yeah, pretty much. I don't have to know all the rules because I know Jesus forgives me.

    OTWO: So are you a literal follower of the Bible?

    Ignorance: What do you mean?

    OTWO: Did mankind just start out in the Garden of Eden less than 6100 years ago?

    Ignorance: No, then I am not a literal follower. When King James wrote the Bible from the Greek, the 6 days had meant something longer but was translated that way. It's just stories to teach us. It is not literal.

    OTWO: Watch Tower Farms......are you talking about? The first part of the Bible, the Old Testament, was written in Hebrew. While you may have something there about misunderstanding the original intent of the writings, I want to know where I should draw the line. What's literal in the Bible? What's a story?

    Ignorance: Just about all of it is stories until Jesus.

    OTWO: So was there Noah and a flood, or a King David? Were the Jews slaves in Egypt?

    Ignorance: I don't know. No matter how many times you ask, I don't really know. I guess not if they are stories.

    OTWO: And what does Jesus forgive you for?

    Ignorance: My sins.

    OTWO: And are those sins you inherited from Adam and Eve?

    Ignorance: No, that's just a story to say we need to follow the rules in the Bible.

    OTWO: I think we've gone full circle now.

    Ignorance: If your wife is still a Jehovah's Witness, shouldn't she divorce you for leaving?

    OTWO: You need to read those rules. God hates divorce.

    Ignorance: Yeah, but Jesus forgives you for it. Maybe you should leave your wife and start having fun.

    OTWO: And you accuse me of having no morals. I am getting off this merry-go-round.

  • OnTheWayOut
    Seriously, that was our actual conversation. It was a bit longer but I edited the rambling parts.
  • TTATTelder

    That was ridiculous, entertaining but ridiculous.

    I am starting to think atheists have stronger morals than the bible thumpers. At least an atheist has thought his or her standards through and has real convictions. Religious people are a moving target for fear and guilt. Can't bet on those emotions being consistent.


  • nicolaou
    Ignorance; "would you kill me if it were to your advantage?"

    Me; Killing you would be to everyone's advantage!

  • galaxie
    Thank god I'm an atheist!!! Lol
  • smiddy

    No , I think killing Adam and Eve would have been to Everybody`s advantage , even God`s .

    Think about it


  • Onager
    TTATTelder 2 hours ago

    I am starting to think atheists have stronger morals than the bible thumpers. At least an atheist has thought his or her standards through and has real convictions. Religious people are a moving target for fear and guilt. Can't bet on those emotions being consistent.


    Strictly speaking Some atheists have stronger morals than Some bible thumpers. :) Some atheists are dicks and some theists are lovely.

    I agree with you that atheists have an advantage though. It seems better to me to behave morally because you believe it to be right rather than because you fear punishment from a deity.

  • nicolaou
    Some atheists are dicks and some theists are lovely.

    Agreed. I know I definitely have some dickish tendencies . .


  • Witness My Fury
    Witness My Fury

    I have a dick, but that doesnt mean i am one.

    That conversation went about as expected LOL

  • DJS

    Thanks OTWO,

    Yes, some atheists are assholes, and some theists are darlings. As several of us have pointed out for the past 2 years. the more secular or atheistic an individual, state, region or country the more likely they are to be ethical, functional, intelligent and educated.

    We have posted very good empirical data from multiple sources including x-tian based research groups that suggests strong correlations between atheism/secularism and functionality and theism and dysfunctionality.

    The Feelers/Believers just can't seem to wrap their heads around the concept. Onager and TTATT Elder, your comments regarding the reasons atheists on average are more ethical, etc. are supported by the research. They are more likely to do the right thing for no other reason than it is the right thing, absent any emotions about punishment/reward or pleasing/displeasing a make believe deity.

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