Did judge Rutherford piss off Hitler

by greenhornet 109 Replies latest watchtower scandals

• 

  OrphanCrow

  Finkelstein, that is exactly how both organizations are structured. In Mein kampf, Hitler's description of the paring down of the membership as being vital to gaining a tight control of power, is a mirror image of what Rutherford did in preparation to establishing his new and improved religion that emerged in 1931 - the Jehovah's witnesses..

  It is also interesting how Hitler lays out how the future transfer of power from an individual person to a larger group of individuals is dependent upon strict adherence to doctrine, only possible after a strong propaganda effort that would 'inoculate' the best of the best to ensure loyalty to 'the organization' and the continuation of the power base's ideology. Hitler foresaw both the dangers, and the inevitability, of his organization being controlled by a group of individuals after he was gone.
• 

  SimonSays

  Once again how do you resolve the presumptuous questions that are marred with inaccuracies.

  http://www.agsconsulting.com/articles/zionists.htm

  This site has misleading statements with no perception on what was going on in that region in the 1910’s, 1920’s 1930’s, 1940’s.

  http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/mcmahon.htm

  http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/balfour_declaration_of_1917.htm

  http://www.thejerusalemfund.org/ht/d/ContentDetails/i/2963

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1920_Nebi_Musa_riots

  http://www.danielpipes.org/8025/the-year-the-arabs-discovered-palestine

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_Palestine

  Etc. You cannot consider C.T. Russell’s motive much less that of Rutherford’s without researching ALL the tumultuous times they were in. You are only concentrating in Hitler’s regime and the similarities it had supposedly by the WTS. No such recorded influence exists. You’re undermining modern perception with yesterday’s events.

  How did Russell perceive the unjust way The Jewish people were having, did that make him a Zionist, NO. He was not calling for flight, money grabbing or criminal intent as you people like to believe. He understood their dilemma. he had firsthand knowledge how it felt to be mistreated, condemned by a bunch of unethical preachers, and governments that ultimately sent some of them to prison on a religious whim. You people seem to forget Bible Students, And Jehovah’s Witnesses have been front and center to prosecution, simply understand this site to find the meaning.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Nations

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/League_of_Nations_mandate

  http://www.mythsandfacts.org/conflict/mandate_for_palestine/mandate_for_palestine.htm

  So your representation of The Bible Students and Jehovah’s Witnesses would be false. Your presuming to

  know the intentions and mindset of people without complete research.
  
• 

  DATA-DOG

  The funny thing is that the WTBTS leaders of today get on stage and say, " Apostates are liars! They even say that we sent letters of support to Hitler!" The dubs just shake their heads...

  DD
• 

  SimonSays

  Yes isn’t it hilarious how people here twist the truth around to benefit their theory. I hope no active Witnesses buy into subversiveness. If you ever bother to research the true Facts?

  Instead of relying on Joke with Facts, and other propaganda sites, you’ll find the underline intent the Catholic Church and other Religious people manifested to question Rutherford’s letter to The Reich and the framework and position Jehovah’s Witnesses held with Party affiliations and government, was to redirect the focus of allegiance from them to the Reich, to the Witnesses.

  So to some extent political insertion by opposing Christians would be correct for the Vatican and others. Can you say by the actions of other religions, Witnesses died needlessly, sure you can. If you have a copy of the letter, read it through again.
• 

  Finkelstein

  Lets be clear and honest about the situation, Rutherford's involvement toward Hitler was to stress to Hitler that the JWS wanted to remain neutral or non committed to Hitlers national socialist political ideology., that they just wanted to continue preaching and practicing their faith as before Hitler came to power and before he developed his Nazism governance over Germany.

  Hitler on the other hand saw them as outside subversives that wouldn't give the Heil Hitler salute which was required by all German citizens or support anything to do with politics in general.
  

  To Hitler he saw the JWS as dangerous subversive dissidents and that is really what put the JWS in a tough precarious position. In Hitlers Nazism it was either you were in or your against, and within his ideology you had to contain or destroy these trouble making dissidents as they would weaken the political social environment he was trying to create.

  So to say Rutherford made things worse for the JWS is really not truthful, what happen to JWS during the Hitlers era in Germany was due to the JWS being JWS and their political resistance to comply in subjection to Hitler's Nazi political ideologies and to not serve in the military.

  Wiki has a lot information of what happened to the JWS during Hitler's era

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jehovah's_Witnesses_in_Nazi_Germany
  

  
  
  
• 

  Finkelstein

  It might be worthy to point out also that the JWS were openly objective to any human man made governance or political supporting involvement. This is anther probable reason that Hitler saw the JWS as a possible threat to be dealt with and perhaps further to show his own power and control.
  
• 

  SimonSays

  No, no. If they’re going after the truth, they need to understand what was going on with religion throughout the globe at that time.

  The focus on Bible Students and Jehovah’s Witnesses is just an underline niche compared to other religions and it’s time people here begin to understand, if they’re going to have a political debate that this 2 factions didn’t have? Then, they also need to understand the atrocities other religions had by condemning Students and Witnesses. The conversation here has not even scratched the surface. Perhaps someone in Rome can convince the Vatican to open up their book vaults to research the history correctly. I have already mentioned it once.

  Will they ever admit that some church fathers pointed out bible students and other religious factions in order to keep the Gestapo happy with the Vatican?

  Find someone who was there like I did, get first hand experiences from people who lived the horrors. I wouldn’t give 2 cents on what James Peton, or Raymond Franz side.

  They need to understand that while it seems funny for people here to trash talk an organization, governments like Russia, and that crazy dictator Putin gets fed this nonsense, and what happens, do Witnesses get shutdown, NO they get imprisoned, retaliated and killed. The differences in persecution of Jehovah’s Witnesses elsewhere might not necessarily come from the Vatican but through the Orthodox Church.

  I would suggest book writers here, at the very least be honest, nothing more. Generating controversy doesn’t help your cause of attempting to get to the truth you seek. Just remember, Jehovah’s Witnesses persecution continues, and will continue to the very end.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_City_in_World_War_II

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_and_Nazi_Germany_during_World_War_II

  http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/vatican/esp_vatican55.htm

  http://serbianna.com/analysis/archives/1182

  http://www.nytimes.com/1989/10/07/opinion/l-why-the-vatican-kept-silent-on-nazi-atrocities-378789.html

  http://hitlernews.cloudworth.com/secret-history-of-vatican-and-hitleryouth-pope.php

  http://www.fatherfeeney.org/point/52-mar.html
• 

  OrphanCrow

  Simonsays:
  The focus on Bible Students and Jehovah’s Witnesses is just an underline niche compared to other religions and it’s time people here begin to understand, if they’re going to have a political debate that this 2 factions didn’t have?

  Simonsays....your words make no sense. I have no idea what it is that you are trying to say, not with this reply, or any of your babbling up until now.

  I am not asking you to 'help me to understand' your nonsense. I am just explaining why I have been ignoring you.
• 

  SimonSays

  Yes I understand your handicap. True to your avatar, black heart.
• 

  Finkelstein

  The Declaration of Facts letter sent to Hitler tells a story in itself where Rutherford went on adamantly that the JWS were a non political evangelical religious organization, an organization that wanted to keep itself out politics all together, but at the same time tried to imply that the organization was for the Political ideals of the Sociologist National party being orchestrated by Hitler political ideology.

  Click on the thumbnails to enlarge a copy of the Declaration in German. Click here for an English translation of the full Declaration of Facts in text format.

  But as I mentioned previously Hitler had one agenda and one agenda only and that was to unite Germany under one political party, the forwarding agenda was to have all Aryans particularly the German people to be under one ideology of Nazism and to eventually eradicate established religions inducing Christianity, including the JWS