The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty 2596 Replies latest jw experiences

  • cofty

    Then how do you explain ....

    "give us today our daily bread" - Matt 6

    You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. - John 14:14

    ‘Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! - Matt 7:9-11

    If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.” - Matt 21:22

    If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. - John 15:7

    This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we knowthat we have what we asked of him. - 1 John 5:14, 15

    Dear friend, I pray that you may enjoy good health and that all may go well with you, even as your soul is getting along well. - 3 John :2

  • doofdaddy

    This is from the site you quoted Caliber:

    The Prayer of Faith

    The key verse for the prayer of faith is Mark 11:24, in which Jesus says, "'Therefore I say to you, whatever things you ask when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you will have them.'"

    So you only ask for strength? Really?

  • humbled

    thanks, Jgnat, for the link to Schweitzer and cofty for Brabazonis definition of Reverence for life--the extention of the Golden Rule into nature. Not humans only.

    Another thread, perhaps, jgnat?

  • caliber

    Does not God bless the effort we put forth ?

    Colossians 3:

    23 Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men,


    The soul of the sluggard craves and gets nothing, while the soul of the diligent is richly supplied.

    In all toil there is profit, but mere talk tends only to poverty.

    The hand of the diligent will rule, while the slothful will be put to forced labor.

    Go to the ant, O sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise. Without having any chief, officer, or ruler, she prepares her bread in summer and gathers her food in harvest.

    A little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to rest, and poverty will come upon you like a robber, and want like an armed man. A worthless person, a wicked man, goes about with crooked speech,

    Whoever works his land will have plenty of bread, but he who follows worthless pursuits lacks sense.

    I love the last scripture you quote...

    Dear friend, I pray that you may enjoy good health and that all may go well with you, even as your soul is getting along well. - 3 John :2

  • cofty

    Caliber a conversation involves responding to what the other person has just said.

    I gave you 7 scriptures that authorise christians to ask god to actually do stuff.

  • adamah

    Caliber said-

    You actually gave me my first hardy laugh of the day but don't get too near my" Red and Chrome Pump Action BB ShotGun" , it mighty be more nasty than you first may think hahahahahaha!

    Well, thanks, as I aim to please (pun intended)!

    BTW, be careful where you point that BB gun or else you might take someone's eye out, including possibly your own (eye safety MUST be a concern for anyone with a green eye located inside ANOTHER green eye)!

    Cofty said-

    Your metaphor is adding nothing but confusion.

    More unsupported conclusions?

    Cofty, deal with the argument presented, and offer some reasoning to SUPPORT your conclusions: you're not immune from the rules of debating, as if the rest of us have to bow to your royal edict and dismissal.

    You can figure out the flaws in the argument, as the 'benign neglect' theodicy is not insurmountable (it's harder for someone to overcome who's never encountered the 'benign neglect' theodicy before).

    Cofty said- The god of theism is knowing, powerful and loving. He could have stopped the tsunami without changing his long-term plan. You make it sound as if the continuation of a quarter of a million lives wasn't worth his time and effort.

    BTW, you rightly avoided making the mistake of saying all theists believe in an omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent God, since obviously they all don't.

    At any rate, assume I'm playing the role of a Xian who readily accepts that God is omnipotent, but willfully limits His actions despite having the capability to act, eg as seen where Jehovah entered into a covenant with humanity after the Flood, promising never to again wash the Earth clean with a flood (God voluntarily removed that option off the table, not because he lacks the capability to flood the Earth, but He chooses NOT to do so, in order to keep His word). That's what's so special about God's covenants and entering promises with mankind: He doesn't have to do so, but does it out of love for humanity as a whole.

    So such willful restrait is NOT an example of his lack of omnipotence, since God sometime chooses NOT to act to serve some other long-term purpose.

    In the case of the tsunami in 2004, God possessed the power to stop the loss of life, but doing so didn't fit into his long-term plans to correct the problem, as God understands there will be some collateral damage involved in the long-term 'treatment' that addresses the cancer of 'evil', since a few eggs must be broken in the process of making omelettes. However, God is keeping track of the suffering, and will settle all accounts in the end.


  • cofty

    I am familiar with benign neglect but your metaphor is adding nothing.

    Why would preventing the tsunami interfere with his long-term plan?

    I asked you this last time and you simply restated your assertion. Try again.

  • adamah

    Cofty said-

    Why would preventing the tsunami interfere with his long-term plan? I asked you this last time and you simply restated your assertion. Try again.

    What's the problem? You don't understand the principle of "benign neglect"? I even used the analogy (BTW, it's not a metaphor, but an analogy) of a doctor surgically excising a cancerous skin tumor to explain the concept.

    I even explained the need to treat properly in a surgical suite using Moh's vs doing the easy "quick fix" in-office procedure of simply lopping the visible parts of the tumor off (and hence missing the tumor's 'roots').

  • DJS

    As regards the tsunami I think it is interesting to observe the 'blame game.' Muslims were widely criticised for failing to provide charitable contributions because they blamed the victims, who were largely Muslims, claiming that god allowed the tsunami because they weren't 'good' Muslims. Some Hindus blamed the Christians for the tsunami. Some right wing U.S. politicians and pastors also blamed the victims, indicating it was god's retribution against non-Christians.

    Geeeshh. Why is anyone a theist?

  • cofty

    Adamah I understand every word you wrote.

    You still haven't said anything.

    You are making a groundless assertion that god didn't stop the tsunami because he had a better, long-term plan.

    I am asking how that excuses him from stopping the tsunami and preventing the destruction of 250 000 lives in the short term. How would that negatively impact on his long-term solution?

    Your metaphor/analogy is counter-productive.

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