The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
This is thoroughly dishonest, special pleading and no reasonable person is buying it.
You mean like "all true Scotsman " or all people of the world ?
Some of us beleive God is special, not all though
Caliber if you can explain how it is reasonable to make endless truth claims about your god but plead ignorance when faced with reality then you may have a point.
Child-like trust in the face of evidence to the contrary is what kept us in a cult.
We're still going?
God is not responsible for stopping every natural event out there that may lead to death.
Nor is He responsible for answering the prayers of every person out there... but only those that come to Him through his Son.
Yet still He 'causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good; and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous'.
Besides all of that:
God DID prevent ALL death and ALL illness from ALL natural causes to ALL people... in Adam and Eve, in the Garden of Eden (spiritual realm). Adam and Eve were not given bodies that were subject to illness, death, or in any danger of injurty causing death. Just like the angels are not subject to such things because their bodies are not subject to such things.
So there was no danger at all from ANY natural event, and no flaw in 'design', except from what came as a result of the fall. From the choice that Adam made for himself and all of his offspring.
It is man who changed... so as to be vulnerable to these events (and others)... and man who needs to be reborn/changed in a twinkling (as Paul spoke of)/given the NEW body (white robe, spirit body) from Christ... so as not to be subject to these and any other cause of death.
God most certainly HAS acted, however, to bring the children harmed in that fall, all those who belong to Him, who want to come to Him... BACK... to Him.
You don't like how long its taking... and all the death that is coming in the meantime... but not everyone who CAN and WILL come to Life, yet HAS come to life. Meaning, not all have yet been born who God knows WILL be born.
This is not the answer that you want... so you will not accept it. But that is on you, and your choice. Because again, if every cause of death was taken away, and there was no suffering or illness... well, that sounds just like the Kingdom that adam/eve lost... but that God has promised that their offspring who belong to God, becoming the children of God, are going to regain.
THIS world is NOT that KINGDOM.
That should not be a shocker to anyone.
Tec/tammy what is the ultimate of your website?
Just asking because I thought someone said you have one
Um... what is the 'ultimate' of my website?
I don't know what that means, lol.
please rephrase ; )
But yes, love, I do have a forum.
There are so called "natural disasters" like S&G that God does take responsibly for... Cofty ethic'srequired that he be responsible for all of them.
Well, being that natural disasters were Jehovah's primary means of interacting with humans in the OT in order to express his disapproval (from the Flood, to S&G's fire and brimstone of volcanic activity), if the shoe fits.....
Of course, ALL such events in ancient times were ascribed to the anger of the deities in the region, as shown by Pompeii's destruction by volcanic Mt Vesuvius in 79 AD: it was blamed on the anger of Venus and Hercules. That's just the way ancient people thought of such events occurring in their World, since they didn't have the benefit of later human scientific knowledge, and didn't know anything about volcanos like we (well, at least, some people) do today.
That's why I said discriminating between 'natural evil' and 'moral evil' is anachronistic here, since the differentiation occurred much later, AFTER science started to discover the actual causes; humans didn't have to believe that some deities caused all such natural disasters.
Cofty said- This is thoroughly dishonest, special pleading and no reasonable person is buying it.
Caliber said- You mean like "all true Scotsman " or all people of the world ? Some of us beleive God is special, not all though....
No, not at all like the "no true Scotsman" fallacy, since this is about basic defininitions of words.
Caliber, if you think its rational to believe in a being BEFORE you've seen ANY compelling evidence, and even AFTER you've been presented with evidence of the contradictory nature of claims made about such a being, then NO, you cannot call yourself a rational person, and you certainly cannot self-identify as a skeptic, one who requires completing an examination of sufficient compelling evidence BEFORE accepting a belief as truth.
We could be talking of aliens, UFO, pixies, fairies, or Jehovah; you cannot "special plead" for one proposed imaginary being out of that list, and still honestly call yourself a rational/skeptic (well, you CAN, thanks to the seemingly-magical powers of self-delusion, i.e. telling yourself flattering ego-bolstering lies in order to justify one's hypocrisy).
I typed url and my phone did the rest.
Tammy - Your post above is just childish fairy tales. It does not address the topic in any way.
God made the earth with earthquakes and casually observed one wipe out a quarter of a million people.
Don't recruit new converts for your idiotic, self-obsessed, ego-driven, voice-hearing, spirit-medium cult on this thread.
Mods please remove the link.
I am allowed to give people a link that they ask for Cofty. You link to my forum as much, maybe even more, than I do, lol. But if the mods wish to remove it, no objection from me. If confused still needs the url, he can just pm me.
Your post above is just childish fairy tales. It does not address the topic in any way.
It does. Besides which... you think it is ALL just childish fairy tales. So you saying that doesn't really mean anything.
But again... no answer will satisfy you other than the one you concluded yourself, many years ago. And you are certainly be given many possible answers, driving that point home.