The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
Not quite Cofty,
In the summary you kepp quoting you said
It is about suffering that is not caused by humans and how theism accounts for it.
I'm saying that "Theism" - not necessarily Christianity - CANNOT account for it and therefore CANNOT BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE for it. That addresses the whole summary, not just rebutting point 14. Hope that's clearer.
As for Pelican yes he did blithely dismiss the suffering of the victims. He even added a crybaby emoticon
And I'd thought it was a CRYING emoticon, meaning sadness. Not blithe.
I'm saying that "Theism" - not necessarily Christianity - CANNOT account for it and therefore CANNOT BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE for it. That addresses the whole summary, not just rebutting point 14. Hope that's clearer. - Retro
I'm sorry I really don't understand your point but i'm very intersted to hear more. Please elaborate.
What do you mean by " CANNOT BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE for it"
I have explained 5 or 6 times that this is NOT my point.
The events of 26th Dec 2004 rasie a difficult question for theism. I want to investigate possible answers.
LOL... no. Your end game is to try and prove that there is no God. This is a step in your end game. You don't really want to investigate possible answers. You want to disprove or ridicule possible answers so that there is no alternative for people except to admit that God is 'dumb and weak or monstrous' (your lies... not mine)... leading TO the end game of belief of God is ridiculous; there is no God.
Same as the end game of your pastor was not to simply discuss why you were not at church... but to convert you back to your faith.
You're playing the same game. You're not going to own up to it?
I mean, that even didn't raise a difficult question for me. I already understood that life on this world and in this flesh also comes with potential danger and harm from such natural events that also enabled life to be here to begin with. Part of this world, and the dangers are part of being physical beings in the physical realm. But none of it is the end of life, not even for those who were harmed/died in those disasters.
LOL nice summary Cofty thanks.
Sure, I'll try.
I believe that I get guidance and support from something greater, outside myself. Whatever you want to call that "something". Study, prayer, and meditation all help me get this guidance.
Given the helpfulness and creativity of the guidance, I believe that it comes from something with more wisdom and integrity than myself. Not hard to imagine, as I've met countless people wiser than I. So there are some wiser still and so on.
But no more than an ant knows an elephant, I don't know if the source of this guidance and strength is bound by any restrictions, follows guidance of its own or whatever. What it could do, does or doesn't do, I cannot answer for. Infact, anyone who has faith in a higher being cannot account for that being, as by definition, it is higher.
And just to make sure you don't get carried away - guidance is guidance, not compulsion. I don't always follow it. (and don't dare insert a crybaby here! :))My decisions are my own and I'm entirely accountable for them.
Hope that helps, Retro
Your end game is to try and prove that there is no God. - Tammy
It is impossible to prove there is no god so that would be a silly game. You are doing a good job of convincing others that believing in god requires abandoning reason.
Attacking somebodies motive for asking a good question is puerile.
You still haven't addressed the actual question and its page 28 now - Unless a god who was too stupid to stop the tsunami is actually your answer.
Retro - Thanks but I'm not sure how that addresses the question.
I think you are saying that you are not a theist. You just have a vague sense of feeling inspired sometimes.
Is this source of guidance the creator and sustainer of the universe. Do you thank him for everyday events or petition him for help?
You are good at quote-mining. Also twisting words. Gotta give you that ; )
All the while avoiding the point... and your end game is no different than your pastor friend's end game, regarding conversion. Just from the opposite angle.
I am off for now though.
It addresses the question if I am a theist, agreed? Perhaps we need to define "theist" more clearly.
You just have a vague sense of feeling inspired sometimes
Argh, no, please don't redefine without at least a question mark. I mean, I ask for advice and get it. Specific help, for example with maths problems when I was at Uni. It doesn't mean I don't use my own resources as far as possible.
Is this source of guidance the creator and sustainer of the universe
I don't know.
Do you thank him for everyday events or petition him for help?
I doubt it's a him, as there is an element of patience. Yes, I've said I ask for help when I need it. I give thanks for help and clarification and the wonder of being alive and supported, not for parking spots.
Has anybody tried the universal sovereignty issue defence yet?