The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday
Very good set of responses!
To add your list of God problems, to me one of the biggest, is if God exists, has the ability to violate laws of nature without detection, and does so to work out his own purpose, then, knowledge about anything, even in principal, is impossible. Of course the darker side of the existence of God is not theological at all, but rather that it affords some not-so-nice individuals and groups to hold superstitious control over others.
If I ever get over the pond again (been once), we'll need to get out and discuss this over a beer!
Very cool conversation! Interesting that the pastor ran through his list of explanations and you blew each one out of the water leaving him with nothing to say. I sincerely hope he thinks about it, though.
All good points, cofty.
God celebrated the 10th anniversary of you not believing in Him by setting you up with Pastor John. ;)
Rather opposite to you Cofty, an in-depth study of evolution still failed to convince me and it was only after reading various academic treatises on the problem of evil and suffering (by traditional scholars and by the classic skeptics - Voltaire, Thomas Paine, Robert Ingersoll, Hitchens, et al) that finally forced me to abandon belief in the inerrancy of scripture and allowed agnosticism to get a foothold.
problem of evil and suffering (by traditional scholars and by the classic skeptics - Voltaire, Thomas Paine, Robert Ingersoll, Hitchens, et al) that finally forced me to abandon belief -yadda
My mum is similar, many do not like to admit their belief system is based on human suffering, science will never prove anything to me either as regards the existence of God, but the indifference to human suffering is a different story. Thank you for your honesty Yadda. Kate xx
Gosh he picked the wrong guy to re-activate...
I assume you ate more curry than he did...that in itself tells me who had the most compelling arguments...:-)
In February of 1756, John Adams wrote in his diary about a discussion he had had with a man named Major Greene. Greene was a devout Christian who sought to persuade Adams to adopt conservative Christian views.
The two argued over the divinity of Jesus. When questioned on the matter, Greene fell back on an old standby: some matters of theology are too complex and mysterious for human understanding.
Adams was not impressed. In his diary he writes, “Thus mystery is made a convenient cover for absurdity.”
A few times Pastor John did fall back on personal experiences of Jesus and feelings and emotions.
I reminded him that feelings were valid, but evidence and reason should be in the driving seat.
I'm sure he will now take comfort in his personal experiences.
The JW argument (as posted by sunny23) is that God is sitting back and letting all the angels witness who's way is better. His or Satan's. And right now, god is stepping back and letting Satan run it all.
But that's not exactly true, is it? God has been meddling since the start. Sending a flood to destroy the people he didn't like. Picking a favorite race of people just because he liked their ancestor. Then helping them out of slavery, championing them in battles, giving them somebody else's land. Then he sends Jesus who is supposed to have redeemed us. Many people now believe they can accept the spirit of jesus into them. How the F is that hands off?
If god does all this meddling, surely he can step in and save lives.
This is a great page with lots of scriptural references: http://packham.n4m.org/disaster.htm
The gist of it is that over and over, it is god who claims he controls natural phenomena. So if anybody would be to blame for the tsunami, it would be god. And the term "act of god" would seem appropriate if you believe in the bible.
I wish my synapses worked half as quick as yours dear Cofty Hope your health and temper are good, think of you often x P x