The Pastor of my Old Church Tried to Re-Convert Me Yesterday

by cofty 2596 Replies latest jw experiences

  • KateWild

    Did God ever promise - Tammy

    Where do you believe God makes his promises? The bible teaches God hears prayers, this leads me to infer he promises through the pages of the bible to stop suffering.

    Tammy, so I believe God is silent as he did not respond to the prayers of many, and the bible is not from God. I don't think God cares about anyone, because he doesn't act like he does.

    Love and peace to you Tammy, Kate xx

  • cofty

    Caliber you were champion of the theory that this is not the time for god to intervene in human affairs.

    My final reply to your point got lost among Adam's intervention.

    When you get a minute please click here and let me know what your response is...

  • cofty

    Tammy - If you want to know my personal theological journey I have discussed it many times before.

    If you have something to add to the topic please keep it reasonably succinct and don't use it as an excuse to promote your voice-hearing cult.

  • caliber

    Caliber you were champion of the theory that this is not the time for god to intervene in human affairs.

    My final reply to your point got lost among Adam's intervention.

    When you get a minute please click here and let me know what your response is.

    cofty you have been very patient with on is ironic this is a great factor in some of the thoughts I am thinking about regarding

    God's "inaction " as you put it. I am going out at the moment also I have been distracted by other issues and thoughts on

    this thread. Don't give up though !!!!

    When you get a minute... your gentle request is very appealing to me

  • cofty

    Thank you Caliber.

    I think I can summarise my objection to your point by describing it as a convenient retreat into temporary Deism.

    Take you time.

  • new hope and happiness
    new hope and happiness

    So this post continues tp live, and why not? Tec has a song of belief in the future which Cofty doesnt understand...and words of conviction can only dance so high untill they fall down.

  • tec

    This is one of what I thought was a good question. Because a believer CAN answer this question, at least as long as they have thought about the issue at all. Answering this question does not require that a person make a definiteive statement, while also knowing that there are variables that they may not even be able to conceive of. (we don't know what we don't know)

    You might not be able to accept the answers for yourself that you will hear from others, but at least anyone can answer this question:

    If real believers have anything to contribute about how they reconcile their faith with these events I really want to hear it.

    I think I have answered this question throughout the thread, as well as in the series of questions that I just asked some of you. Death and disaster and suffering, etc... these are all part of this world. We were not promised otherwise in this world. It isn't even an issue for me.

    It is not that I make light of others' suffering. But I am just not shocked by it... this is just part of the world turning; and I have known that since I was a child.

    What people do to other people can shock me. But this...? This is just the world turning and man getting caught in the movement and effects.

    I am interested in hearing how christians reconcile petitionary prayer with god's inaction.

    Inaction from what point of view?

    As to the question:

    I do know that God is not required to answer any prayers other than those that come from those who belong to His Son and approach Him through that Son. (Whether He does hear and answer other prayers is His business, and not mine. He heard Cornelius ( I think it was Cornelius) because of the good works and love shown to the poor and needy that Cornelius had given. So that God sent Cornelius someone who could tell him about Christ and point him TO Christ, so that Cornelius could put his faith IN Christ.)

    But even Chirst did not petition in prayer according to his own desires and will. When praying just before his arrest, He prayed... IF possible, please take this cup from me. If not, then let YOUR will be done. If we are following Him, then should we not also follow Him in this?

    Christ also did not teach anyone to ask for things for themselves. Like jobs, houses, promotions, etc, etc. He said not to pray like the pagans do, and that our Father knows what we need. But we are often self absorbed or have too little faith. (speaking for myself from the times that I have asked for things for myself) Because is it not a lacking in faith for our Father that we pray for a promotion or a job or something, instead of listening to Christ when He said NOT to worry about these things, that our Father knows what we need, more than even we know?

    Prayers of mercy or forgiveness, for strength or for ears to hear, or for faith, or for hearts to be softened... for ourselves and/or for others. These are petitionary prayers, and from what I understand from my Lord, these would be asked according to the will of God, as taught by His Son. These kinds of petitions are according to His will. As Moses petitioned for the Israelites when they sinned. As Abraham petitioned for the righteous in S&G. As Christ petitioned on behalf of those who sinned against Him, "Father forgive them for they know not what they do."

    Peace to you.

    Your servant and a slave of Christ,


  • tec

    I've just requoted the two relevent parts below from your lengthy response, because the rest was not relevent:

    I am curious. How do you know what was or was not relevant?

    I have no idea what you mean about 'hidden easter egg'... but speaking a warning, yes.

    I meant hidden easter egg because in the example, you missed the warning - so god/jesus must not have been very clear in his warning.

    Why assume that Christ would not have been clear in his warning? People ignore warnings all the time from those who ARE loud and so... easier... to hear.

    Are doctors and such not very clear in their warning that cigarettes are harmful to your health?

    How many people disregard the warning, thinking that such harm happens only to other people... OR... just taking the risk anyway?

    Man knows that living near the water or in 'tornado alley' brings greater risks... but he takes his chances. Man knows that living in an area with high risk of cancer or miscarriage etc... is a risk. But he still goes, or he doesn't leave.

    An area with high risk of cancer or miscarriage - what?

    I lived in a city, nicknamed, 'chemical valley', because of its industry. Health problems - including miscarriage - resulted. I doubt that would be on any official report, mind you... same as living near power lines or towers, etc, causing higher risk of cancer, would also be an official finding.

    But that's besides the point. What's the reason of even including this section? You just said that god speaks a warning, which you didn't clarify - is it a voice whispering as you're used to? Then why are you mentioning the high risk areas, man taking his chances? Is this the warning? Because if so - it is not gods warning, we know about plate tetonics and the equator, and what parts of the world are more at risk of tornados etc because of science, not because of god.

    Please be clear about your answer.

    I mention it because man ignores even the warnings and signs that he can see and hear with his physical ears and eyes.

    Man also ignores the warnings given by the Spirit. Ignores them even easier when he does not believe that such a thing is even possible. Some probably call these warnings premonitions, or gut instinct (which saves lives of police and/or soldiers, etc), or a voice that he assumes is his own that might say, get out, this is dangerous, there is a risk of danger in moving to this region or doing this certain thing, etc, etc, this is a bad idea... or the reverse, go to that person and talk to them, go to this place, say this thing, don't say that thing, etc, etc. To listen to that voice, unfortunately, is said to be silly and foolish and superstitous. Sometimes it might be, being built on fears that man has instilled (like jws seeing demons in everything, for example). But sometimes it is the Spirit. Once you come to know and recognize His voice, you learn better to heed him. (well, hopefully)

    Hope that helps clarify my point.

    Peace to you,


  • new hope and happiness
    new hope and happiness

    peace to you Tammy.

  • tec

    Thank you New Hope, and peace also to you.

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