abortion vs holocaust (page 45)

cofty

you are also focusing on the exceptions rather than addressing the morality of abortion in the vast majority of cases where it simply is an unwanted baby. - mrhhome

Yes for 22 pages I have focussed on the example at one extreme end of the spectrum in order to test Unstop's position. Once we establish the reasons and principles behind his views THEN we can explore the wider topic of abortions for other reasons. Like Jgnat I still haven't expressed any opinion on the subject and won't do so until Ustop explains his.

It has taken 22 pages because Unstop prevaricates like all fundamentalists do when they are asked searching questions.

Unstop - In order to establish the principles you are using to make your assertions we need to face a simple fact.

When a pregnancy threatens the life of the mother it is ethical to terminate the life of the baby. We agree it is regrettable and nobody is happy about it, and that the motivation is only about saving a life, but the fact remains. In this extreme situation you do reluctantly agree with a mother's right to choose a termination.

jgnat

ravens, let's go over j hofer's claims to see if he is really misrepresenting your position.

You firmly stand behind the holocaust analogy. Check.
Life starts at conception, so any abortion after conception is murder. Check.
Most abortions are conducted by women for casual reasons, not for extreme examples like ectopic pregnancies. Check.

(Post 2710) i have time and time again in this thread said the motive for these women is not as if they enjoy having the abortion

No you haven't shown compassion for a woman's hard choice in this circumstance. Not once. Not once. I've gone through the whole thread. You call these women immoral, disgusting and horrible, your words. You might think you are compassionate but you have not represented that on this thread.

(Post 2563) ...how many abortions are because of those two reasons...
(Post 2565) ...the problem is the mother who does not want a child,and that same mother who does not think a baby should live. to me is a horrible excuse ...
(Post 2568) ...she said it her self. she admited she desevered to be given a hard time. that her conscience alerting her she knows it wrong
(Post 2595) ... i never said the mothers aborting there children were motived by hate. sadly you are focusing on the mothers who have to make a hard choice, when the real victims are the babies....
(Post 2596) ...disgusting...how many abortions happen between 1o weeks and 24?...
(Post 2598) ....even at eight weeks look at what a fetus looks like. if a person believes it is life on day one to me it will not make a differance between day 1 and day 27o...
(Post 2600) ... so took at some pictures of dead ppl at the holocaust and look at dead babies from 8 weeks to 24 tell me if you see any differnce... come on guys the problem starts with our view of abortion...
(Post 2605) ...why is it ok for a mother to impose her view of abortion on a 12 week fetus who is a living being?...
(Post 2625) ...pro choicers would not deny a life ending abortion to 15 week baby....
(Post 2640) ...educating ppl on what they are doing when they abort a baby. ...
(Post 2645) ... i feel if a women gets pregnant and say well i just dont want to be a parent now, the timing is off,and i want to go to collage first so ill have an abortion. thats disgusting to me.....
(Post 2649) ...however you wouldnt care if she choose death. that i wish you could she for what it is. immoral...
(Post 2665)...a girl is 25 she has sex get preg, does not want to have a kid yet she is 8 weeks preg. no health issues. in your view does she have the right to choice an abortion?...
(Post 2691) gnat: i would tell you what would really work [I assume save sex for marriage - jgnat] , but of course to many here sadly reject it. how many abortions happen to the unmarried compared to the married.

unstopableravens

jgnat: for someone who wants to play middleman, you sure are not honest, you just posted my comments not one of thoses did i say a women was, immoral ,horrible or disgusting. in all the cases i said the act was, i never ascibed that to any person. how can you be so blinded by bias or dishonest gnat.

jgnat

From the first I have called your comparisons extreme and unproductive. If the act is horrible, disgusting, immoral (your words), what does that make the person?

I understand why you take refuge in ad-hominem when the tough questions come up.

unstopableravens

jgnat : really thats how your going to justify your lies? claiming i called a person thoses names is not the same as calling an act immoral. jh calims that i believe the women abort "for the fun of it" that is not my claim as if they are bored and have nothing else to do. unless your a rinning for office quit your smearing and represent what i say fairly and honestly.

unstopableravens

running (that was really a typo lol)

Witness My Fury

If the act is immoral, what does that make the person doing them?

If the act is disgusting, what does that make the person doing them?

Stop being a prat.

caliber

Adoption or death ?

The story is recounted in 1 Kings 3:16-28 . Two young women who lived in the same house and who both had an infant son came to Solomon for a judgment. One of the women claimed that the other, after accidentally smothering her own son while sleeping, had exchanged the two children to make it appear that the living child was hers. The other woman denied this and so both women claimed to be the mother of the living son and said that the dead boy belonged to the other.

After some deliberation, King Solomon called for a sword to be brought before him. He declared that there was only one fair solution: the live son must be split in two, each woman receiving half of the child. Upon hearing this terrible verdict, the boy's true mother cried out, "Oh Lord, give the baby to her, just don't kill him!" The liar, in her bitter jealousy, exclaimed, "It shall be neither mine nor yours—divide it!"

Which of these women to you admire and respect the most ?

The greatest" compassion" we hope to see is from "the would be mother" of a child... her natural love would allow another

women to raise her child rather than kill her baby .

Also surely the laws can be "refined"so if the life of the mother is at risk this would be given first priority..

I agree that it isn't always black and white. However, you are also focusing on the exceptions rather than addressing the morality of abortion in the vast majority of cases where it simply is an unwanted baby. ~~~Mrhhome

Is there a need to open the flood gates to every abortion ?

Clearly there is difference between life for life vs life for death

If a choice must be made ( in such a case ), yes the mother's life would be valued more (as sad and unfair as it seems for the unborn child)

unstopableravens

jgnat:/wmf:if a person has a good driving record and one day drives drunk, does that make him a horrible driver and horrible person?. one can say that is horrible how can you drive drunk knowing you can kill someone. calling out an act is not the same as labing a person by the same terms you did the act. i may not be the best speller and not the best at grammer, infact i may be one of the worst. but im glad i have the respect to be honest ,even with ppl i totally disagree with.

jgnat

Providing direct quotes are lies now, are they?

All right then. You temper your statements that the acts of these women is horrible, disgusting, and immoral. But you still think they are OK (the women, not the act).

Do you totally disagree with my statement that the teen pregnancy rate in the US, especially the southern states of the US, Nicaragua, and Chile, are shameful?

abortion vs holocaust

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