Elders appointed by Holy Spirit, an error in logic

by VM44 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • VM44

    The Watchtower and the JWs use the following reasoining to "prove" that elders are appointed by Holy Spirit.

    1) The Bible was written under inspiration of the Holy Spirt.

    2) The Bible requirements for and elder are followed when selecting and appointing elders.

    3) Therefore, the elders are appointed by Holy Spirt.

    Thre is a logical flaw in this argument.

    Consider the following counter example.

    Suppose that a person obtains a book on medicine written by a Doctor A, and that the person follows the instructions in the book concerning the writing a prescription.

    1) Can the perscription that the person wrote be considered as having been written by Doctor A?

    2) Can the perscription that the person wrote even be considered as having been written under the direction of Doctor A?

    The answer to both questions is "No."

    The same answer applies to whether the Holy Spirit appoints elders.

    So what is the logical error in the Watchtower's reasoning?

  • snare&racket

    And yet 13% of the bible was recently recently removed after 2000 years........ So how reliable is it?

    also by that logic everything they do with a scripture attached to it is inspired.... Not doing after school activities is spirit guided, wimen not wearing trousers is spirit guided... Crazy argument that they make!

  • Terry

    We have a premise which is merely secondary.

    What is the primary?

    Accepting the Bible as the result of a supernatural intelligence is the primary.

    Why would we accept such a premise??

    Wouldn't we have have to be superstitious?


    Superstition, belief in supernatural causality: that one event leads to the cause of another without any natural process linking the two events, such as astrology, religion, omens, witchcraft, etc., that contradicts natural science.

  • Sittingstraight1212

    So my husband was appointed as an elder after kissing ass for 6years

    In this new cong. They asked the question, "is there anything you need to come forth with of past doings

    That you need to tell us ?" yes he said. He didn't tell me about a time he was with a woman

    , it was the only one he didn't tell ME about(just kissing) several times before this incident, he was caught

    By me. He never got DF'ed... For those times. But needless to say he was appointed...then just a month ago... 10 years later... He went to the elders to confess that there was some manipulations!! Feeling up! Hmmm why wouldnt holy spirit know this already and not apoint him?!! I always said that he had to of done more... But he denied it! (he stepped down after 3 years, since our kid was in trouble!) ! And then one time he claimed he felt he holy purity in use when he was appointed! What a load of crap!!! The elders said to him, your wife has grounds to divorce... What was his discipline? Not being able to do mics and lit. Counter!!! And I'm the one who is shunned by those AH's for not going to meeting!

  • Sittingstraight1212

    Not purity... Spirit is what I meant!

  • problemaddict

    Here is the logical error I see.

    Elders are appointed by HS.

    Elder commits fraud, rape, sin, molestation, etc...

    Q - Did he fake out the holy spirit or did we get it wrong?

    A - Elders are still people and prone to sin.

    Q - So Jehovah doesn't appont all elders by holy spirit then?

    A - No he does, through the bibles qualifications and the influence on the body.

    Q - So Jehovah made this particular evil person an elder not to further his work but to test the congregation?

    A - "With evil things God cannot be tried", Jehovah allows these things to happen, but doesn't cause them.

    Q - So you are saying Jehovah did not cause him to be an elder? Isn't that the same thing? I mean the branch supported his appointment.

    A - Well maybe when he was appointed he was fine and later became corrupted, and now Jehovah has brought it to the fore.

    Q - So if Jehovah brought it to the fore, why did he wait after ____ happened since his heart condition was headed that direction from Gods perspective. Better yet, how do you know this guy wasn't_____ing before he was appointed. Are you making an assumption?


    There is no logic in the belief that the elders will be cheiftans in the new world, that they are the stars in the hands of Christ in the Revelation vision, and that they can ONLY become one of these by being appointed by their local branch....the conduit of holy spirit apparently.

    What a mess.

  • tec

    Well, the best people to refute it (elders being appointed by hs) are the elders themselves, who have both seen and been behind the curtain. Especially those who are faking it, but still doing it, for various reasons.



  • leaving_quietly

    At the week-long Elder's school, they addressed this. It goes something like this:

    Elders pray for holy spirit before their meeting before the C.O.'s visit about recommending brothers. The holy spirit can act in that meeting to move an elder to speak up or raise some objection, if necessary.

    C.O. comes and observes the one being recommended. Holy spirit can move the C.O. to raise an objection, if necessary.

    C.O. sends recommendation to branch. Service department researches brother. If on file, may respond negatively. If not on file, usually goes with C.O.'s recommendation. Holy spirit can move brother in service department one way or another.

    Recommendation approved, and sent back to congregation. Elders meet with brother being recommended and ask him if there's anything that would disqualify him from serving. And now, a specific question about having ever been involved or accused of child molestation. Holy spirit can move that brother to come clean.

    So, you see, the holy spirit can move anyone along this chain to raise an objection, including the brother himself.

    At least, that's how it's supposed to work.

    The reality is, if no one knows the brother well enough, and if the brother chooses not to come clean, then, you see, holy spirit is not in operation. A brother can be appointed without the approval of the holy spirit. We've all seen it.

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    The real question is who appoints the appointers? You can trace the authority back only so far and then there are people appointing themselves. The scriptures also talk about bishops, priests, seventy, deacons apostles and prophets. Remember Agabus, who predicted Peter's confinement in Rome? He was a prophet, but not an apostle. And Revelation 11 talks about two prophets who will minister to the Jews in the latter days. So if God's organization includes all these other offices, where are they in the WTBTS? And why are there no ordinations in the Society?

    The Society says it isn't a church, but Jesus said there is a church, and that it has keys of authority and all these other offices. So my question is, which church does the Society recommend joining if it isn't a church? And what about the church that the gates of hell shall not prevail against? If someone's looking for the church of Jesus Christ, with all the aforementioned offices, which people are ordained to, which church should one join? And is the Society competing against it?

    Never could figure that one out.

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