I saw a 'sister' today who had never had the opportunity to ask me why I stopped going to the meetings. She had heard some gossip, but wanted to hear it from the horses mouth, if I didn't mind. COURSE I didn't mind, some of it related to someone bad-mouthing her family, but I told her that was just the straw that broke the camel's back.I said I had been wishing I wasn't at the meetings for about a year beforehand, and there were lots of reasons, hypocrisy for one.During the run-up to the last memorial some one here had pointed out John6:50-60. Fortunately, I still carry a small NWT in my bag, so I showed her that bit, especially verse 54, regarding partaking and resurrection.TMS trained, I asked her what that implied and she said that she thought I was getting at everyone partaking. I said if you were reading that without having the Bible in one hand and the Watchtower in the other hand then that is just what it says.Of course I didn't expect her to agree with me. The upshot was that I said the org got a lot of things wrong IMO but I was not about to tell people they shouldn't be going to the KH, that was for them to decide.My husband(Not JW)had already been speaking to her on the subject and he was a good bit freer of speech, said I thought there would be a schism and that she would be AMAZED how much 'stuff' there was to find out on the internet! Her husband is a MS,Tuesday group tonight, wonder what will happen next?
Will I get a shepherding call now, or just DF'd?
by meat pie 3 Replies latest jw friends
-
-
BluesBrother
I suppose the outcome depends a lot on the attitude of your bunch of cong elders. Some are more likely to "Go for the jugular " than others. It would be nice if it provoked some kind of response. Too many today just sit back and watch "Weak" ones fade away.
I am impressed that you carry the Bible with you, They should commend you for that!
-
ThiChi
Good work! I can tell by your actions you sleep well at night.
You need two or more witnesses to confirm what you said regarding going to heaven to get Df’d. Unless, of course, you cop out to the elders when asked....
It may be DA time..........
-
blondie
They will probably "adjust" her thinking with this information:
As to John 6:54, “new light” was shed in 1986.
1986: It was appreciated that both the remnant and the “great crowd” must figuratively partake of Jesus’ flesh and blood by accepting his sacrifice in order to be in harmony with him.—John 6:53-56.
February 15, 1986 Watchtower pages 30-1 Questions From Readers
In John 6:53, was Jesus referring only to anointed Christians when he commented: “Most truly I say to you, Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves”?
For many years we have explained these words as being limited to anointed Christians who will be taken to heaven to rule with Jesus Christ. However, a further study of this matter recommends a broader application of John 6:53.
Over the years we have viewed this text in the light of other verses that use similar expressions. For example, the phrase have “life in yourselves” is similar to Jesus’ words in John 5:26, which dealt exclusively with Jehovah and Jesus. Yet, as explained on pages 11 and 12 of this magazine, the context of John 5:26 provides the basis for understanding the words “have life in himself” in that verse. But John 6:53 was uttered a year later and has a different context.Another influence on our previous view of John 6:53 was Jesus’ comment about ‘eating his flesh and drinking his blood.’ This had similarities to what Christ said when instituting the Lord’s Evening Meal. When instituting that, he spoke about his flesh and blood, and he directed that emblems of these (unleavened bread and wine) be partaken of by his followers who would be taken into the new covenant and into a covenant for a kingdom. (Luke 22:14-22, 28-30) Again, however, the context of John 6:53 needs to be appreciated.
When Jesus said what is recorded in John 6:53, his institution of the Lord’s Evening Meal was yet a year away. None who heard Jesus had any idea about an annual celebration with literal emblems standing for Christ’s flesh and blood. Rather, Jesus’ theme, or line of argument, in John chapter 6 had to do with his flesh being comparable to manna. There was a difference, though. His flesh (and, he added, his blood) was greater than literal manna in that his flesh was given for the life of the world, making everlasting life possible.—John 6:48-51.
Consequently, added research has recently highlighted that there was a time difference of a year between Jesus’ words in John 5:26 and his comments in John chapter 6; then it was another year before he instituted the Lord’s Evening Meal. Greater weight has also been given to the immediate context of John 6:53. Thus, the article on pages 15-20 offers a broadened application of John 6:53, including both those who are taken into the new covenant for heavenly life and those who have the prospect of endless life on a paradise earth.*** w86 2/15 19-20 "Bread of Life" Available for All ***
“Life in Yourselves”13 At John 6:53, 54, Jesus equates “everlasting life” with having “life in yourselves.” So, in this context, the expression “life in yourselves” seems to have a different significance from that used by Jesus in John 5:26. Expressions of the same grammatical construction as having “life in yourselves” occur elsewhere in the Greek Scriptures. For example: “Have salt in yourselves” (Mark 9:50) and “receiving in themselves the full recompense” (Romans 1:27). In these examples, the phrase does not signify power to bestow salt or recompense on others. Rather, internal completeness or fullness is indicated. Thus, according to the context of John 6:53, having “life in yourselves” would here mean entering at last into the very fullness of life. The “little flock” of Kingdom heirs experience this at their resurrection into the heavens. The “other sheep” experience it after the end of the thousand years, when they are tested and declared righteous for everlasting life in the Paradise earth.—1 John 3:2; Revelation 20:4, 5.
14 Others, too, can benefit from the “bread from heaven.” Jesus said of the one that ‘eats his flesh and drinks his blood’ but who dies: “I shall resurrect him at the last day.” It is understood that anointed Christians sleeping in death are raised at the sounding of “the last trumpet,” which takes place during the “manifestation” of Jesus Christ in Kingdom glory. (1 Corinthians 15:52; 2 Timothy 4:1, 8) But what of the prospective “other sheep” who fall asleep in death? Martha’s words at the time of Lazarus’ death are of interest here, for at that time God-fearing Jews had no hope other than an earthly resurrection. Martha’s faith was expressed in the words: “I know he [Lazarus] will rise in the resurrection on the last day.” (John 11:24) We who are living now at Christ’s presence can therefore hope that faithful ones of the “great crowd” that fall asleep in death will have an early resurrection here on earth, so that they may again partake of the “bread from heaven,” with everlasting life in view. What a grand hope that is, a hope assured in that Jesus himself was raised from the dead!—1 Corinthians 15:3-8.
“In Union With Christ”
15 Jesus continues: “He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him.” (John 6:56) This, then, is true of “anyone” who thus exercises faith in Jesus’ sacrifice, with the prospect of having ‘life in himself.’ All who manifest such faith can come to be “in union with” Jesus. Of course, the “great crowd,” having earthly hopes, are not “in union with Christ” in the sense of being joint heirs with him, members of his bride who receive a heavenly resurrection like his. (Romans 8:1, 10; 1 Corinthians 1:2; 2 Corinthians 5:17; 11:2; Galatians 3:28, 29; Ephesians 1:1, 4, 11; Philippians 3:8-11) Yet all with earthly hopes can be, actually must be, in complete harmony with the Father and the Son in knowing and doing the “perfect will of God,” even as is true of the “little flock.”—Romans 12:2; compare John 17:21.16 Consequently, the sacrificial value of the flesh and blood of Christ is available to all today who exercise faith, and all who avail themselves of it can, in vital ways, be “in union with” Jesus. All are to become part of the universal family of Jehovah God. In these critical “last days,” they enjoy a worldwide unity of belief, purpose, and activity. Exercising faith in Jesus, they are enabled to “do works greater” in scope than those that Jesus performed here on earth. And let it be noted that the millions of the “great crowd” now form 99.7 percent of those doing Jehovah’s work at this time. (John 14:12; Romans 10:18) This oneness of purpose and effort is reflected in the grand global witness and willing support of the Watch Tower Society’s building programs. (Psalm 110:3) How many of the world of mankind will yet believe and come into this precious unity remains to be seen. A recent report shows 3,024,131 active Witnesses.
Reasoning Book page 268 Memorial (Lord's Evening Meal)
Does John 6:53, 54 indicate that only those who do partake will gain everlasting life?John 6:53, 54: “Jesus said to them: ‘Most truly I say to you, Unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in yourselves. He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I shall resurrect him at the last day.’”
This eating and drinking would obviously have to be done figuratively; otherwise the one doing it would be violating God’s law. (Gen. 9:4; Acts 15:28, 29) However, it should be noted that Jesus’ statement at John 6:53, 54 was not made in connection with the inauguration of the Lord’s Evening Meal. None who heard him had any idea of a celebration with bread and wine used to represent Christ’s flesh and blood. That arrangement was not introduced until about a year later, and the apostle John’s report about the Lord’s Evening Meal does not begin until more than seven chapters later on (in John 14) in the Gospel bearing his name.
How, then, can a person “eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood” in a figurative way if not by partaking of the bread and the wine at the Memorial? Notice that Jesus said that those thus eating and drinking would have “everlasting life.” Earlier, in Joh 6 verse 40, when explaining what people must do to have everlasting life, what did he say was the will of his Father? That “everyone that beholds the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life.” Reasonably, then, ‘eating his flesh and drinking his blood’ in a figurative sense is done by exercising faith in the redeeming power of Jesus’ flesh and blood laid down in sacrifice. This exercising of faith is required of all who will gain the fullness of life, whether in the heavens with Christ or in the earthly Paradise.