60% of Chinese are atheist or agnostic. Many Chinese intellectuals like Confucianism.

by yadda yadda 2 6 Replies latest jw friends

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  yadda yadda 2

  That's about 816,000,000 Chinese that are atheist or agnostic. Mindblowing. How many of them have even heard of Jehovah or Jehovah's Witnesses or the Awake and Watchtower magazines?

  One of the religions in China is Confucianism. A lot of Chinese intellectuals like Confucianism. You can see why it's an attractive option judging by this excerpt from Wikipaedia:

  The core of Confucianism is humanism, or what the philosopher Herbert Fingarette calls "the secular as sacred". Confucianism focuses on the practical, especially the importance of the family, and not a belief in gods or the afterlife. [2] Confucianism broadly speaking does not exalt faithfulness to divine will or higher law. [3] This stance rests on the belief that human beings are teachable, improvable and perfectible through personal and communal endeavor especially self-cultivation and self-creation. Confucian thought focuses on the cultivation of virtue and maintenance of ethics. Some of the basic Confucian ethical concepts and practices includeren, yi, and li. Ren is an obligation of altruism and humaneness for other individuals. Yi is the upholding of righteousness and the moral disposition to do good. Li is a system of norms and propriety that determines how a person should properly act in everyday life. Confucianism holds one in contempt, either passively or actively, for the failure of upholding the cardinal moral values of ren and yi.
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  metatron

  I'm happy to see this subject brought up because it suggests where the world is headed. China, together with alliances with Russia and 3rd world nations, is slowly overcoming the dominance of the US. This is being accelerated by the staggering incompetence of Obama AND the Republicans. It's as if a bunch of children were in charge.

  The world is going to be less religious but more moral, in some ways. It's interesting to watch. I don't think the WTS is going to make any real headway into China, inspite of their fantasies.

  metatron
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  yadda yadda 2

  I started this thread to show how it is not necessary to believe in deities and an after-life to live a good and virtuous life, which is the case with most Chinese people.

  Confucius felt that the ability to know know whether there are deities or an after-life is beyond human understanding, and so what is important is to focus on living the right kind of life now. Similar to Buddhism but without all the karma, reincarnation, and mythological stuff.

  A thought experiment to snap yourself out of your JW mind-set is to pretend you have a Chinese heritage and only follow the Confucian principles and nothing else, imagining you were never a JW. You are not attending any new Church, are not worshipping a Trinity or anything like that. You're just following a good system of values. You have left an 8,000,000 strong group for an 800,000,000 strong group.
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  Laika

  Interesting stuff.

  Christianity is the fastest growing religion in China, more people go to Church on Sundays in China then in the whole EU, which is surprising. Most of these are house churches which the government will tolerate as they're independent, but they generally don't like hierarchy church structures, which is why the Watchtower Society has struggled over there, demonstrating that Organisation is not always the best route to success I suppose.

  When I was in Japan I met a family who's son had gone to China as a JW missionary, he had to go covert and wasn't allowed to phone home so they hadn't heard from him for 6 months, at the time I was really impressed by their sacrifice.
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  Band on the Run

  Most humanists during the Renaissance were intellectuals. Intellectuals tend to dominate ruling classes under any system b/c they have the education and skills for governance, technology, or administration. I am not referring solely to academics. Doctors, lawyers, Indian chiefs.....Every society needs an intellectual class. Mao thought differently, of course. A school friend was from Hong Kong, the descendant of Confucian scholars. The last legitimately trained ones were burned in oil after a short period of reform during the reign of the last emperor.

  Different strains of Christianity appeal to different classes in the West. I recall that the Russian Orthodox Church was the main deterent to Soviet power in Russia.

  With China, a lot depends on how far the central government allows people to worship freely.

  I've studied Confuicanism briefly and found parts of it very attractive and other parts revolting. China had a superb civil corps b/c of the emphasis on culture. Christianity teaches a different view and may be attractive as a symbol of joining the rest of the world. How Chinese one sees themselves may be an important selling point. I wonder how many Christians there would be today if Constantine had not endorsed Christianity. Christianity was tamed in larage measure. Now going to church services is akin to playing in a bridge club or playing golf. Bourgeois.

  My friend's family left Hong Kong when the Cultural Revolution exploded into their haven in Hong Kong. Her father had no problem imagining what might happen if Britain lost control. They moved to SF. Their family was an interesting blend of Confucianism, Buddhism, and Baptist. No family member saw anything strange about embracing all these beliefs. Her father never recovered his career but he did Confucian type things for the Chinese community. He was a prominent lobbyist for increased immigration and frequently met with Congressional and White House leaders concerning it.
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  jgnat

  I like the first few books of Confucian sayings, as they are attributed to Confucius himself.

  Do keep in mind that Confucius maintains that a good man manages all his duties, including ancestor worship. I very much like his sayings about leadership. They ring true.
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  jgnat

  Here's some food for thought. This Chinese intellectual offers that China is a meritocracy, and that perhaps democracy/free market is not the holy grail.

  http://www.ted.com/talks/eric_x_li_a_tale_of_two_political_systems.html