A small victory over WT child indoctrination.

by trailerfitter 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • trailerfitter
    trailerfitter

    Over the last few years it has been a stuggle to ensure my son who is now eight years old is not indoctrinated into the rediculous world of the Watchtower. Whilst I am separated from my wife she takes every opportunity to try to get him to slave for Jeeehoovah (Joseph Stalin as i call him). Today, after a discussion I found out she has yet again tried to explain that god made the world etc, and the Noahs arc story. This lead to a fantastic opportunity to ask him what he thought about it. It is wrong to kill everyone and anything that has the power to do so should not have that power. Good progress. Although I am an athiest ( a position I took up after the WT infected our lives) I leave him to decide for himeslf what the truth is and only offer more rational and logical explainations.

    Paramount to having a freer mind don't you think?

    My son is at an age where he thinks everything - including electricity and hidden mechanical components - especially in cars - are magic. His interest in the world has increase lately, he is asking questions which has opened the door to explore the "real reasons" behind how the world works rather that being lazy and just saying God did it or IT'S MAGIC!!

    It is a compliment for him to say he trusts what I say. We discussed what his mum does for "the men who tell her what to do" and he has the understanding already that working for them who "pretend they talk to god" is SLAVERY.. (understanding of slavery came from a UK Christian school that explained slavery in the Egyptian times.)

    Just though I'd share this with you and say a thank you for those who post information and make videos alerting / educating people like myself who have caused a massive rift in my family by the WTBTS. I know it it harder for some but all efforts are not wasted!!!

  • notjustyet
    notjustyet

    Great job,..

    Here is a great video from Qualisoup (youtube channel) that you might want to share with your son. They also have some other great

    videos for children to help them learn how to think, instead of telling them what to think.

    NJY

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OLPL5p0fMg

  • Oubliette
    Oubliette

    trailerfitter: My son is at an age where he thinks everything - including electricity and hidden mechanical components - especially in cars - are magic.

    Good for you. My suggeston: Teach your son to think like a scientist:

    "Magic's just science that we don't understand yet.” - Arthur C. Clarke

  • ABibleStudent
    ABibleStudent

    Hi trailerfitter, Are you encouraging your son to get a good education/training? Something as simple as taking him to a local university and saying he can go to school here if he makes a plan to do it might help him.

    Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

    Robert

  • adamah
    adamah

    trailerfitter,

    Keep up the good work with your son; he's lucky to have at least one parent who's not willing to let his intellectual capabilities be intentionally-hamstrung so his mind can be offered on the altar of sacrifice to ancient lies!

    I've always felt that if someone can read through the first 10 chapters of Genesis without understanding they're looking at fascinating fables from history, and do so without recognizing the fundamental immorality depicted in God's actions, they're not TRYING to think rationally OR morally.

    I've written a number of posts on my blog discussing the accounts found in Genesis, setting aside all the miraculous elements (that so many people get hung up on) to explore the moral issues that are depicted in God's actions, from the fundamental unfairness of punishing Adam and Eve for their desire not to remain fools, to God's "forgetting" to tell mankind it's a sin to kill other humans until AFTER the Flood (even in spite of the prior murder of Abel, and Lamech's boasting of being protected by God even moreso than Cain)!

    It should give you plenty of ideas for ammunition to demonstrate to him the 'continuity errors' in the Genesis account (which most kids intuitively understand from movies; someone goofed up, and the actor is shown wearing a different color shirt in the next scene).

    http://awgue.weebly.com/

    Of course, it's not all about rational beliefs, but emotional factors, as well: hopefully he'll be able to make the moral choice to abandon irrationality rather than 'going along to get along', and you'll succeed in breaking the cycle.

    Adam

  • Frazzled UBM
    Frazzled UBM

    Trailerfitter - I feel you. Great result - well done but keep it up because eternal vigilance is very important.

    I also have a young son (7 years old) who my JW wife tries intermittently to indoctrinate. Originally I let her take him to the KH because I thought the re3ligion was benign but I read up and then I foudn out she ahd been doing the Bible toris book with him without my knowledge and when I read it analysed and realized how it uses fear to manipulate young uncritrical minds I was horrified. I told him in front of my wife and over her protests that the stories were true that the stories were not true and were no more than stories.

    I also found out that my wife had shown my son that nborrible kids DVD. It freaked him out so he was very happy when I told him it was rubbish and he should ignore it. The scariness of the Bible Stories and KH propaganda have had an effedct though - he has nightmares and has a phobia of churches and crosses.

    But he has worked out for himself that it is a load of crock - he told me one time when I was trying to brainwash-proof him that he knew Jehovah didn't exist (like you my experience with my wife has turned me from an agnostic to a full on atheist). Mind you I have helped him get there some of the things I have done to achieve this are:

    - to counteract the love-bombing I explained that they will make him feel really special for as long as he agrees with what they think but if he doesn't or he asks questions they don't like they can become very mean. Luckily hed had seen how my wife was treated when she was df'd so he didn't take much convincing on that one;

    - I also explained about empirical truth - that is things are true if you can observe them and then I explained that JWs think things are true if they are told they come from the Bible and I used the example of the Giants and so I aksed him if they were told the Bible said that pigs fly would they think it was true that pigs fly and he answered 'nooo...oh YES'

    - I also encourage curiosity and the asking of questions and not accepting answers unless they can be verified (notjustyet - I loved the critical thinking clip - it summarises my objection to the way the WBTS controls thinking so well - I believe denial of the ability to think crticially is a denail of human rights);

    - when he comes back (he is away with his Mum at the moment) I will explain to him about how they use fear as a methos of control and try to get him to face his church phobia;

    I think it so important to understand how the WBTS indoctrinates children in orfder to work out strategies to c ouneract it.

    I feel so sad when I see stores of non-JW Dads who cave to pressure from the JW wife to allow here to take the kids to the KH and read the Bible Stories and other propaganda and then when they hit 14 they get baptized without the UBM's consent or knowledge. That would be soul-destroying and it ain't happening on my watch and I don't care about the consequent aggro from the missus.

  • trailerfitter
    trailerfitter

    Great video notjustyet. something we will learn together. Thanks for the replies, it is encouraging to know that i do not stand alone in this matter. Unfortunately the WTBT$ wants to drag everyone into their little drama. For now thing are ticking along. I have not allowed her to take him the the KH although he has been on the odd occation. I pulled her up on changing her meeting days and sneeking off there with him, He complained how boring it was and doesn't want to go anyway.

    I do not mind the boy exploring but not with fanatics who cannot reason. He does need to be religiously literate but I find the Watchtower are NOT suitable teachers.

    As adamah stated actually analyising the moral aspects of gods great moments the boy is too young yet to fully comprehend. He needs more time and through the traditional religeous education at school he will get a grasp of the stories without his mothers bias on events.

    She has a slave mentality and approves of slavery in the old testament...I wanted to briefly discuss the issue but,.... the zelotness of her belief means things get intense and out of hand, too emotional if you like. She says she is qualified to teach the bible then why doesn't she know the first ten commandments given to Moses?

    I pointed out the commandment about killing and she had to dive into the bible to check. Okay there are over 160 but the first most of christianity know them. I asked also why was it okay to kill men women and children and occupy a land, taking slaves. By her own admission it is okay to do this. really? Not in this day and age. If it is okay then was Hitler justified? I don't think so.

    After digging at the subject of "thou shalt not kill" or in her words from the JW bible "thou shalt not murder" it appears that the morality of YWHY is on very shakey ground. It is okay to kill if you are a solidier but not to murder....this was her answer. Yet the inconsistance shows when the last discussion we had about this, no one killed it was god doing the killing through them guiding their hands....obserd to say the least.

    After much going around the mulberry bush and recieving avoidance - jumping around saying JC had changed the law. To me the passage she quoted in Galations condoned the laws as it is set in the old testament but from her point of view it is not... Okay, so Jeeehovah changed the commandments or did his son over-rule his fathers rules that were set in stone....??? To me it is unimportant. The morality is.

    The impression I get when it gets too hard or intelectually compromising - she then pulls out a book to offer or offers a specialist who knows about this subject to get them in to discuss it. I would have thought being "qualified to teach" and spends time telling everyone that all the religions have got it wrong and the WT is the only true religion then the answers should be there without refferal.

    Same thing with exodus, god looking after them in the desert, in her words, starts off with 1.5 million who god is looking after and she quoted 1 ton of food per day supplied. Works out much less than a gramme per day per person. She changes it to 3 million and god supplies 4 tonnes per day of food. Still doesn't figure mathamatically. She quickly commented " oh you like mathamatics" and " god supplied" avoided the subject forthwith. Another avoidance....

    I do not want to make her look stupid in all honesty as it is counter productive however the boy was present and get the impression that she didn't know what she was talking about.

    In a nutshell, everything i say, is wrong from her point of view. Even if I point out a fact, it is wrong, even if it is written there in black and white or looked at logically. Since Eugene has preferred to side with me it looks bad on her even though she wants us to agree on things..( the WT way).

    My son who was not taking part in the debate wanted to pull me away and do something else. Good for him.

  • Hortensia
    Hortensia

    take your time with your son, never give up on teaching him how to think. Encourage him to even disagree with you sometimes when you're talking. I don't mean disobedience in important issues, but disagreeing about ideas, realizing there are lots of aspects to any situation.

  • trailerfitter
    trailerfitter

    Yes Hortensia, society itself is complex as is the human mind. Ultimately he needs to make his own wise choices based on his own judgement and not forced fed lies from a group of people who ultimately not worthy of being trusted to be teachers.

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