So we've adopted the refusal of blood transfusions given how the bible clearly states it's a sin to reintroduce blood into the body once it has been shed; however, why don't we still stone sinners to death (just the really bad ones) like they did in they did when times were purer?
Stoning sinners to death
by jws_rock 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Captain Obvious
Welcome to the board!
Why just the really bad sinners? If we are to really follow the bible like in purer times, we should stone all apostates, homosexuals, children who talk back to us and people who gather sticks on the sabbath.
See? Black and white reasoning can lead to some pretty extreme ideas.
And remember, Jehovah of armies hates violence!
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blondie
I do believe that Israelites tried and executed "sinners" while they were a sovereign nation. But after Babylon took them captive and Persia set them up under their control (no Israelite kings), they had to adhere to the laws of the land. Wasn't that why the Jewish religious leaders had to manipulate the Roman government into executing Jesus. As long as the laws of the land do not give that authority to the WTS, they will hold back. The WTS teaches that df'd or da'd members are as good as dead, one reason no one should talk to them, because jws would not talk to a dead person.
*** w52 11/15 p. 703 Questions From Readers ***
We are not living today among theocratic nations where such members of our fleshly family relationship could be exterminated for apostasy from God and his theocratic organization, as was possible and was ordered in the nation of Israel in the wilderness of Sinai and in the land of Palestine. “Thou shalt surely kill him; thy hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. And thou shalt stone him to death with stones, because he hath sought to draw thee away from Jehovah thy God, . . . And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is in the midst of thee.”—Deut. 13:6-11, AS.
Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God’s law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship.
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Captain Obvious
Thanks Blondie! I have a question for you though..
Did the Roman leaders have to be convinced to kill Jesus just for his apostasy, or just to kill him in general? I thought the Romans had a habit of nailing people to stakes crosses anyway?
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Oculos Aperire
" the bible clearly states it's a sin to reintroduce blood into the body once it has been shed".???
Where does it say that? Would you kindly show me please? My Bibles of which I have about 70 now say no such thing. They simply says we must not 'eat' it and nothing more.
I do wish people would keep the Bible and their personal interpretation separate and resist the need to make meld them. Mixing the two has been the cause of no end of harm.
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jws_rock
Where does it say that? Would you kindly show me please? My Bibles of which I have about 70 now say no such thing. They simply says we must not 'eat' it and nothing more.
I do wish people would keep the Bible and their personal interpretation separate and resist the need to make meld them. Mixing the two has been the cause of no end of harm.
That's what I thought it said. My parents force me to go to the meetings, so my mind wanders and I really don't retain 5% of what's said at the meetings, so thanks for humbling me.
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jws_rock
I just verified. You re right.
Acts 15:28-29
28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.
Lev 3:17
17 'This shall be a perpetual statute throughout your generations in all your dwellings: you shall eat neither fat nor blood.' "
The doctrine of the Jehovah’s Witnesses prohibiting blood transfusions is not found in scripture.
JWs object to transfusion of blood on the grounds that it is the same as intravenous feeding.
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Oculos Aperire
Dear jws ,
It was not my intention to humble you or anyone else :) Sorry if it came across that way. I myself am working every day on humbling myself especially in regard to what I thought I knew.. or accepted without question from the JW education program.
I now have to re-examine and question everything I have been taught from the society's literature over half a life time. I have put the 'literature' aside and am looking at what the Bible itself says on things. I also can no longer let others do my thinking for me.. I can not let others define what I believe.. or define who I am// I can not let a group of old, white dudes living in a private luxury bomb shelter I will never ever meet or get to know define for me what I believe or what God's thoughts are on any matter. They don't even know themselves what they believe.
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Brother of the Hawk
jws_rock: Welcome to the board. I do hope I am not going off topic. But if you read more carefully the scripture you quoted at Acts 15: 28-29 there are TWO separate blood issues there!!! Most JWs miss this little point, I know I did for 42 years. I did alot of research on this and the truth of the matter is, it has absolutely NOTHING to do with blood transfusions, since blood transfusions were NOT even conceiveable at this time in History.
James, when HE settled the matter on circumcision had something else in mind when he gave his answer. Both points on this matter have to do with Gods Law ( the 10 commandments) of murder ( not shedding mans blood) and the sanctity of life and pouring out the blood an animal YOU killed. Please refer to: Lev 17:14-16 NWT
For the soul of every sort of flesh is its blood by the soul in it. Consequently I said to the sons of Israel: “YOU must not eat the blood of any sort of flesh, because the soul of every sort of flesh is its blood. Anyone eating it will be cut off.”
As for any soul that eats a body [already] dead or something torn by a wild beast, whether a native or an alien resident, he must in that case wash his garments and bathe in water and be unclean until the evening; and he must be clean. 16 But if he will not wash them and will not bathe his flesh, he must then answer for his error.’”
Notice an Isrealite could eat an "unbled" already dead animal, since he did not kill the animal there was nothing to pay back to God!!
My question to you is this. Whose life is taken to obtain blood in a blood transfusion? No ones, so there is nothing to pay back to God!! The WTBT$ is mis-applying the scriptures at Acts to control its followers and appear to be MORE enlightened than all other religions. Think about it!
If you really want to have your mind blown, read 1 Cor 8: 1-13. Paul CORRECTS James comments regarding "things sacrificed to idols". have fun with that one.
Affectionately: Brother of the Hawk ( I will surrender my mind no more, forever)
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Watkins
BLONDIE --- About this quote you posted - " Being limited by the laws of the worldly nation in which we live and also by the laws of God through Jesus Christ, we can take action against apostates only to a certain extent, that is, consistent with both sets of laws. The law of the land and God’s law through Christ forbid us to kill apostates, even though they be members of our own flesh-and-blood family relationship."
What are "the laws of God through Jesus Christ" / "God's law through Christ"?? Were there any scriptures cited?
Notice the clever wording - 'forbid us to kill apostates' instead of "love your neighbor", "have love among yourselves" or "forgive your brother"!
Also noticed this:
Lev 3:17 'This shall be a perpetual statute throughout your generations in all your dwellings: you shall eat neither fat nor blood.' "
Why is there no wt prohibition on FAT?! They love to hang out in the OT because they're so very afraid of Jesus, honestly.
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jws_rock - just keep your ears open and you'll find lots of contradictions between what the wt teaches and what Jesus teaches. I'm sorry your parents force you to go to meetings, but be as respectful and loving as you want them to be to you. That's Jesus' teaching, NOT the wt's! I'm sure you love them and don't want them to be misinformed either... maybe you can bring some of your questions up to them and research things that are bothering you together.
In the meantime use the search feature on this forum - the blood issue for example - TONS of good information and research articles. Truth can stand up to any scrutiny, remember, and it's our job to put it to the test!
Hang in there!