(Thanks to Johannes Greber for his extensive help in providing the following interview.)
Q: How do you wish to be called? Mr.Russell...Dr.Russell, Pastor Russell?
Russell: For many years I served as a Pastor although I never darkened the doorway of an institution of theology for purposes of obtaining certification in the mindset of Christendom.
Rutherford: You can call me Judge or you can call me Joe as long as you call me for supper! ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Q: Very well. Pastor Russell and Judge Rutherford can you briefly describe your relationship?
Russell: Well, I'm dead as a fleshly man and so is Joe. But, due to our now being men of "spirit" we live on in the capacity of disembodied new creations.
Rutherford: Speak for yourself Charlie! I'm serving in an executive capacity in heaven on the board, as it were.
Q: Board? Of what?
Rutherford: Board of Directors! I direct....
Russell: He means HELPS direct...
Rutherford: I DIRECT the protocols of doctrinal dissemination.
Russell: He mostly drinks whiskey and blusters!
Rutherford: Harrumpf!! Where's my Jim Beam?
Q: Have things changed for you since your demise and resurrection? I mean...as far as your mission in connection with Jehovah's Kingdom?
Russell: Oh my yes! So many things are clearer now than in my earthly state...
Rutherford: For instance: the first thing you discover in heaven is that God's name isn't JEHOVAH!
Q: Startling news for a Jehovah's Witness!
Russell: Not for me...I never was one; although I used "Jehovah" to reference deity.
Rutherford: At any rate....Jehovah is not the name our Lord prefers to be called. In fact, He despises the very use of it.
Q: What exactly IS the Lord's name?
Rutherford: Oh, it's HYMIE GOLDFARB!
Russell: I too was shocked.
Q: How is this possible?
Rutherford: He just likes the name, that's all. He says He can call himself anything He likes and He likes Hymie Goldfarb.
Russell: All those Jehovah's Witnesses drive him batty talking to Him and about Him as though they play golf together.....really ticks him off.
Q: So, are we to assume Jehovah's Witnesses ARE ...um...Hymie's chosen people? Or, not?
Russell: Oh my no!
Rutherford: They are definitely on his shit-list! But, he doesn't blame me.
Russell: No, Hymie mainly blames old Freddy Franz. So much imagination in one little man--but, not much fact at all!
Rutherford: And----you can look around heaven all you like; you won't find Freddy anywhere!!
Q: Oh! Should we assume he is...um...in another less appealing place?
Rutherford: Oh yes! He is in Detroit!
Russell: In a very small walkup apartment without central heat and air!
Q: Whaaaat? Explain this, please sir.
Rutherford: Certainly. He has been set the task of reading all of L.Ron Hubbard's writings and giving a report on them to the Big Guy?
Russell: Hymie is fascinated by Scientology! He hasn't made up His mind about it yet, though. He can't understand most of it....
Rutherford: ...but, He really likes the soupcans and the Auditing aspect of it!
Q: Since you mention Scientology----this raises the question of exactly what IS the only true religion?
Russell: Oh, I asked Hymie that myself right off when I arrived in heaven.
Rutherford: So did I! Although, we certainly think we know!
Russell: Hymie hasn't made up his mind yet, but, right now He is leaning toward Deepak Chopra's ideas. He likes the way Chopra dresses....and his sauve, manly suntan!
Rutherford: ...especially on his book jacket photo!
Q: This is astounding! The Supreme Being doesn't KNOW which religion is true?
Russell: Oh, H. Goldfarb insists He is not the SUPREME being. He thinks of Diana Ross as the Supreme being.
Rutherford: Oh you dolt! Hymie was making a play on words when He said that to you! Idiot!
Q: Um....this raises more questions, naturally....
Russell: Don't call me idiot, you buffoon.
Rutherford: Kiss my pucker, whiskerboy!
Q: Gentlemen!! Gentlemen!!
Rutherford: We're NOT men anymore. I told you. We are spirits in a material world! Listen to the radio, man, the Police say it is so!
Q: All right. Whatever you like. Can we move on? I'd like to know what purpose God, er uh, Hymie has for mankind. Can either of your give a detailed synopsis?
Russell: Certainly. Hymie woke up in the middle of the universe in the middle of endless eternity and decided He existed. After that, He was really bored.
Rutherford: Yes. Who wouldn't be with all that time on His hands?
Russell: So, He decided to start a hobby or two to occupy Himself.
Rutherford: And, to cut to the chase, He has been improvising ever since then! He played with dinosaurs a loooong time.
Q: Fascinating! Go on...go on!
Russell: He began toying with..the act of creating using parts of Himself.
Rutherford: That is where his bosom companion came from that we used to think of as Michael or Logos.
Russell: Yes, but we were wrong, Joe--don't leave that out!
Rutherford: I wasn't! It was Freddy who was wrong. He wrote most of my material that didn't make any sense, you see.
Russell: Don't go scape-goating Franz, Judge. You approved of everything he wrote!
Rutherford: Hogwash! I had a magazine to fill. I needed SOMETHING to put in it; even the folderol Freddy churned out.
Q: Excuse me---are you saying that God and his...um...Logos are not part of a Trinity?
Rutherford: You can explain that one, Charlie.
Russell: Oh, thanks. Not much to explain, really, God is a really bored personality who suffers from Multiple Personality Disorder. He switches back and forth all the time.
Rutherford: Worse than that. Tell him, Pastor!
Russell: (Whispering) Yes...Hymie Goldfarb can't really be regarded as "sane" in the same sense that you and I are sane.
Rutherford: Speak for yourself, Pastor!
Russell: I WAS speaking for myself! Anyway, Hymie gets depressed and prickly at times. His interaction with humanity is alot like a young lad with toy soldiers to occupy his imagination.
Rutherford: Or dinosaurs! He was fascinated with all those strange concoctions for millions of years!
Russell: Yes, I forgot about that. He came up with all kinds of imaginative and scarifying inventions. Finally ended up making them fight and eat each other until even that bored him; then....
Rutherford: Then--Hymie sent a huge asteroid to crash into Earth and He started all over.
Russell: Yes, with HUMANS!
Rutherford: But, that was as He was maturing a bit. Humanity was a more refined sort of dinosaur game.
Russell: Hardly that!
Q: Are you saying God did not have the divine purpose stated in the Bible that was temporarily thwarted by man's SIN??
Rutherford: You can think what you like, but... Hymie told me He was just making everything up as He went along.
Russell: Hymie use to love talking to mankind or putting a good scare into them.
Rutherford: Or, impressing them with miracles and wonders!
Russell: Or getting really angry with them when they failed to play the game the way Hymie wanted!
Rutherford: Oh boy--did He ever get angry!!
Q: Are you saying the Bible isn't true, or- that it is not fully accurate?
Russell: The bible is mainly a string of people telling each other stories they heard.
Rutherford: Yes, unfortunately for the True Believers there isn't much substance there after all.
Russell: Sigh. Yes, all those theology students may as well be partying it up.
Q: So then, there is no Hell either?
Rutherford: Oh YES there is! But, it isn't what humans think it is!
Q: Explain, please?
Russell: It isn't a place of eternal burning. It is a state of continual seeking to make sense of who God is and what He wants mankind to do. Actually, Hymie doesn't have a clue what He really wants to do.
Rutherford: Yes, He seems to be sulking right now. He won't even talk to humans.
Russell: Not entirely or precisely accurate, Judge! What the Judge fails to tell you is that Hymie sometimes will whisper "inspirations" into men's ears and convince them of this or that to start a new religion going and see what kind of marvellous ideas they come up with.
Rutherford: Like hiring scriptwriters for a movie.
Russell: I suppose you could say that. Humanity is ENTERTAINMENT! The more conflict and excitement the better!
Q: Such as?
Rutherford: He really liked what Muhammed did with some the ideas Hymie gave him. Went out and conquered most of the world.
Russell: Oh, and Joseph Smith was a favorite for awhile too, don't forget.
Rutherford: Not as much as you were, Pastor. Don't be modest!
Russell: Oh my---well, I suppose I should be straightforward and admit I was a favorite of His for awhile.
Rutherford: Not JUST you! He really liked my style too.....for awhile!
Q: Are you both saying that God.....er...Hymie Goldfarb has set into motion first one religion and then another and another all through history JUST TO OCCUPY HIS MIND and prevent boredom---but--that He tires of all of them???
Rutherford: I'd say that's pretty much it.
Russell: Yes, time is really nagging at Hymie...He is very sick of it! But, He can't die until everybody stops believing in Him, you see.
Rutherford: Even tried to commit suicide back in the day.
Q: WHAAAT? WHEN?
Russell: You know the story---He got Himself crucified!
Rutherford: Tried every way He could to get Himself done in! That Pontius Pilate was annoying the hell out of Hymie trying to get Him acquitted.
Q: I can't believe what I'm hearing! Hymie Goldfarb was Jesus?
Russell: Just one aspect of Hymie's Multiple Personality Syndrome.
Rutherford: Jesus was killed. Now the other aspects of Hymie's infinite imagination memorialize Him by pretending Jesus is still alive.
Russell: That is oversimplifying! It is more complicated than that.
Q: Explain.....that is....if you can.
Russell: Hymie...God... is depressed, confused, bored and pretty unstable. He has done everything there is to do to keep His sanity by staying busy. But, like most superintelligent egos---He tires easily of the same old same old.
Rutherford: That is true! Then, He starts messing with what He has going and confuses the hell out of people, animals and Earth itself!
Q: I just don't know what to make of this.....I don't know what else to ask.....so much to think about and reflect upon.....
Russell: I'm surprised you didn't ask about Satan!
Q: OH! Yes, please tell me---is there a real devil?
Rutherford: Nobody knows for sure. Nobody has ever seen the devil. We only hear rumors from the angels that all is not as it seems.
Russell: Yes, most angels will not discuss Him-whose-name-must-not-be-mentioned without trembling.
Rutherford: My own opinion is that this is just another of Hymie's darker personality disorders at play. Projection of His id.
Russell: Perhaps....perhaps.....difficult to surmise.
Q: I think after this conversation I know even less than I did before it began. Have the two of you been involved in any SANE aspects of the Preaching work among the group Jehovah's Witnesses?
Russell: Yes, I write "New Light" doctrines and Joe changes them!
Rutherford: Ha ha ha ha---that's a good one. ha ha ha ha.
Q: Is that true?
Rutherford: Certainly not. I suspect Freddy is still in charge of that!
Q: And Fred Franz is where?
Russell: Nobody knows....but...strangely----whenever Freddy is mentioned all the angels tremble..........