And the Rabbi spoke to me saying: All Translations are Lies!

by Terry 7 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Terry
    Terry

    Years ago I would spend every morning before work at a local coffe shop with an interesting group of men. One of them was a Muslim, one was a Rabbi, one was an Atheist, one was a business man and then--there was me.

    Somehow or other the Rabbi and I were always left as the last of the group talking alone with each other.

    One day I got on the subject of bible translations. I asked his opinion.

    And the Rabbi spoke to me saying: "In Judaism we hold it to be an inviolable rule: All Translations are lies!"

    Not on purpose--but--inadvertently because the mind of the man inspired by Adonai only thought in Hewbrew!

    Well, I pondered that idea. And from time to time (working in a used bookstore as I was) I'd read any book that came in

    on bible translations and textual criticism, the history of the church, early church fathers, canonicity etc.

    It wasn't long before my mind cried out that something inside my BELIEF SYSTEM must CHANGE---or else!


    Changing an opinion requires a complete rooting out of all connecting inferences like tangled roots beneath the soil on weeds you pluck from your garden. Our ideas are connected and the redundancy of an error is everywhere lurking and doing its damage.

    It became clear to me (and to anybody studying SCRIPTURE origins) that there is a dead skunk in the woodpile that everyone pretended wasn't there. I'm talking, of course, about the controversial issue of "inspiration" in religious writing and what is canonical and what isn't.


    Without a verifying text to support a religious doctrine you have only human opinion. And that, my friends, is a thorny fact.

    Once you have a verifying text your problems have only just begun. How do you ascertain the veracity of a written text? How do you authenticate the god-breathed part of it and distinguish from the man's-hands part of it? How do you parse a text for the distinction between hidden meaning (symbolical) and contextual historical meaning?

    How can you ever know what you are reading wasn't just the result of a redaction and rewriting AGENDA of some person or group (like the Watchtower with its "a god" rendering of John 1:1) intent on influencing a beloved doctrine?


    Well, you can't! But, some do pretend!

    THERE IS A TRAP and it is one involving intellectual honesty. If you already BELIEVE with all your heart---how can you be honest in dealing with contrary evidence? Intellectual honesty is the willingness to change your mind and follow the evidence no matter where you are led.

    Otherwise?
    You end up proving your presupposition. If you demand for yourself that the Bible MUST HAVE BEEN "inspired" then you will also insist it was PRESERVED. And that will settle the issue for you and you'll dismiss all evidence to the contrary.


    Your investigation will only have been an annoyance and not an honest intellectual inquiry of warts and all.


    Humans hate and despise uncertainty. Pious humans will go so far as to make up wild stories to eliminate doubt and uncertainty!

    The SEPTUAGINT (also spelled SEPTUIGINT) is a mere case in point of the entire process of mythmaking away doubt.


    Whenever a revision, translation or redaction of a beloved document is undertaken it is sorely tempting to make it into what it (by your own opinon) SHOULD BE rather than what it is. That is why a fisherman will lengthen the size of the fish he caught each time he tells of the catch!.

    The myth of the creation of the SEPTUAGINT version of the scriptures:

    The Jews became overawed by Greek culture and language after Alexander the Great conquered the Eastern World. Pious Jews lost the ability to read Hebrew since they now regularly spoke Greek. A translation was needed but it had to be "perfect"! 70 translators worked separately--we are told--and when they finished and compared their work---OH MY!! THEY ALL MATCHED EXACTLY!!

    The 70 translators weren't 70 translators. Seventy appeals to the numerologists and does not conform to the actual facts. That's just a head's up going in to this subject. As the rabbi's will tell you, "All translations are lies". And they don't mean necessarily deliberate ones. They mean a translation calls for CHANGES and changes require judgment, familiarity and pivotal viewpoints to resolve issues of importance. So, it comes down to why the changes are made and not merely what changes are made. This is policy.


    The AUTHORISED KING JAMES...um...versionThe King James translators were not translators per se, as an example. They were learned and scholarly men who were charged with propping up the notion of a King and lending as much credence to his authority as humanly possible. Further, they were intent on sifting through PREVIOUS translations into the common tongue and choosing the apt phrase and the beautiful cadence rather than sourcing a Hebrew word and literally showcasing it. This is a fact. Should we expect that the Septuagint translators were free from all worldly and human issues, policies and rationale just to assure ourselves that truth is crammed into every sentence? That would be delicious and yet lacking in realism.


    My own conclusion is that a kind of sad and unfunny farce has been perpetrated on generations of humans that concerns our gullible acceptance of the very notion of an "inspired" writing passed on to us for our edification and enlightenment.

    Does that eliminate God?

    No.

    It should eliminate our addiction to MEN'S OPINIONS OF GOD.

    How pompous and inflated can man's ego get to expect and demand to KNOW THE MIND OF GOD?

    Why can't we admit we are making it all up?

    God can be unknowable and more transcendent than a mere ancient book.

    But no--we insist on capturing God in a bottle like a firefly and entertaining ourselves with the blinking of his tiny captive light!

  • Satanus
    Satanus

    The king james translators were merely following in the steps of the jews who had written and rewritten the bible countless times, until it finally became semicoherent. Jews still have the original lies, so they think that they are special.

    S

  • Terry
    Terry

    Satanus: The king james translators were merely following in the steps of the jews who had written and rewritten the bible countless times, until it finally became semicoherent. Jews still have the original lies, so they think that they are special.

    Considering how unverifiable orally translated stories passed down from generation to generation actually are....whoever finally wrote down what they had always heard (as accurately as memory could produce) probably sighed with relief. Now they wouldn't have to remember any more.

    In fact, ancient people had tremendous memories for details considered worth preserving! Josephus is rather an extraordinary prodigy at recalling every jot and tiddle of the Antiquities of the Jews. Yet--we have HIS WORD to go on that he is accurate. Many scholars will be quick to tell you he pulls a fast one now and again. He wrote two versions of the same history--by the way--one for the Romans and one for the Jews. They, um, are inconsistent as you might well imagine.

    None of that is as important as being grateful we have any record of anything at all historical, mythical or traditional. It is when we insist on making it HOLY and standing back in awe and obeying every sentence we get ourselves in the tar pit of intellectual dishonesty.

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    Thank you for posting this Terry. Very interesting. I think designs once posted something along the lines that Christians should talk to Jewish rabbis. They'd certainly learn stuff their preists/ministers aren't telling them and may not know themselves.

    All who believe the Bible to be literally true should read this. Sometimes Hebrew just doesn't translate. Period. Also knowing that the books were written well after the events they are documenting and not by a person who was actually there, and that some books were removed by Luther you start to understand that the Bible we have today is a variant of what it used to be. We do not have the originals to compare with either.

    As a teenager I could see the underlying agendas in the Bible. But then I am female. The misogynistic and partriarchal ideas and themes in the Bible do not resonate with me. They actually do the opposite.

    A few years back I asked my Dad how many books were in the Bible. He did not know. He had been a JW for 25 years and did not know this basic fact.

    I suspect that a lot of JWs don't know much about the history of the Bible.

  • designs
    designs

    We thought we were pretty hot stuff with our Green NWT, the very best translation, it made us special lol

  • Pistoff
    Pistoff

    Great post, Terry.

    From my own reading, these things stand out:

    1. The bible (OT) is a collection of books, not one book, and it shows signs of being redacted heavily. Scholars put it somewhere between 400 and 700 BCE.

    There is strong evidence it has 4 sources, the J, E, P, and D sources.

    The redaction makes it seem that the Jews were monotheistic from earliest times, when even internal evidence is there to say otherwise, and favors the kings of the southern kingdom over those of the north.

    2. Back to your main point, even if we could take one book and know it was 'inspired' by god and was translated perfectly, it would still be a book that is of it's own time. Some would say that any bible book is timeless, but all of the books in the bible make the most sense when viewed in their context, and as having been redacted after the fact. True believers will say that God guided the process, but the argument is facile; why guide men who made so many errors when he could have provided real proof and a document that is internally coherent?

    3. The third thing is that some element of deconstructionism enters in; all evidence says that the books are written versions of oral traditions, and we can't know what the oral story meant to it's teller or listeners, or what the later conversion to written story meant to the author, who his audience was, etc.

    The book of Job is an example I think of; what did it mean to the listeners and then later to the author? I think mainline Jews regard it as a fable, but JW's take it as literal history. Why?

    IMO, it's most powerful effect is what it means to us, what we experience when we read it personally, and even some JW's will admit this. Publicly, they will follow the party line, but many will say something like 'I have my own ideas on that'. But we are told from an early age THIS is what it means, and so any nuance is lost to us.

    That way of experiencing the books of the bible, the individual experience, is the one that interests me, but the bible has been the most manipulated book ever; we are told what it means, what we must think about it, who had to have written it.

  • moshe
    moshe

    Even when I was a JW I was suspiscious of the story of Josiah's priests finding the lost book of the law- and after seeing the Torah held up before the congregation at Temple hundreds of times I can tell you it is huge- no way do you misplace something that big- it's not like they had a dusty basement. I think Josiah had a new version created- a reform version and that is what happened.

  • Terry
    Terry

    Moshe, it was very very difficult lugging those giant scripture rolls for the door to door work. Those early christians must have had biceps like Lou Ferrigno!

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