comments you will not hear, or just might, 30sec,-- bible reading Luke 18

by prologos 6 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • prologos
    prologos

    Luke 18:9:-- [Jesus] spoke to those who trusted themselfs that they were [RIGHT or] rightous and who considered the rest as nothing":, (as other sheep, lower aninmals only)

    the context shows why it is so hard to convince a householder in the d2d work [or a dub of Tatt] is in the prayer of the Pharisee,

    Luke 8:11,12 :"---God I thank you that I am not like the rest --[no, I am, you made me' better, the best]-or even as this tax collector.--"

    Not only did the religious leader think he was good, he actually thaught that God wanted him to be so contemptuous, That he had made progress in that direction, but implied he would do better in the future.

    "-- they will kill you and think they have done a service to God--" and God thinks so too. GOD APPROVES US.

    so dont expect anything better today.

    BSW: Jesus was allowed in the synagogue to do an analysis, a comment after his bible reading, not any more for JWmales,

    the Jesus incident showed is is too risky for the establishment.

  • mP
    mP

    Here we go again, Jesus the Roman stooge. Why is Jesus so obsessed with increasing tax revenues for the ROmans and yet not once does he have a word against slavery. I guess he wouldnt want to condemn slavry, pedophilia or anything that the Romans enjoyed.

  • Bobcat
    Bobcat

    Prologos:

    Also notice how the Pharisee is so concerned with numbers -

    (Luke 18:12 NWT) . . .I fast twice a week, I give the tenth of all things I acquire.. . .

    All these 'numbers' give proof to how righteous he was. But, in contrast, the tax collector, a 'man of numbers,' not so much, or at all.

    The contrast almost seems to be made obvious by Jesus, as if he knew self-righteous people were prone to offer such proof of their righteousness.

    Take Care

  • ÁrbolesdeArabia
    ÁrbolesdeArabia

    Good stuff Bobcat and Prologos! Keep up the good Bible Comments and pay no mind to Mp, he is having a bad hair week!

  • Bobcat
    Bobcat

    Arbo:

    Thanks for the comments. Just saw this thread re: WT numbers.

  • Bobcat
    Bobcat

    Here is a little from the BECNT-Luke commentary (Darrell L. Bock; Vol II p.1458-1463):

    The contrast [between the Pharisee and the tax collector] is seen in a variety of ways. First, the men use different approaches. The Pharisee manages to refer to himself in the first person five times in two verses and describes himself in the prayer with the active voice. The tax collector has God as the subject and sees himself as a passive figure. He is in need of mercy, so he appeals to God. The Pharisee sees his achievements as abundantly fulfilling the law, so he believes that he is better than others. The tax collector knows that before God he is nothing, and so needs to appeal to God for mercy.

    Second, the men take different positions [in where they stand - v.10, the Pharisee "stood"; v.13, the tax man "stood at a distance" and "was not willing even to raise his eyes heavenward" - Bobcat]. One is certain that he can approach God and almost demand justice as a matter of personal right. The other is so conscious of his unworthiness that he can barely approach God. . .

    Precedent for both styles of prayer is found in the OT: the Pharisee's confidence is like Ps. 26 and 17:3-5, while the tax collector's humility reflects Ps. 34 and 51. The Pharisee's prayer actually goes beyond OT confidence in being so certain that one can approach God on one's own merits and in having so much contempt for all other people. The tax collector is assumed to be God's "enemy," though he has done nothing to deserve the description. The Pharisee is quick to judge others and confident of his own achievements. Thinking he knows truth, the Pharisee is proud and self-deceived.

    . . . A Pharisee is described here, but the introduction [v.9] broadens the application to all who have this attitude (Greek tinas; "some who").

    . . . Given the remark in 18:13 about where the tax collector stands, it is likely that the Pharisee has gone right into the inner court. . . The [Pharisee's] reference to the tax collector [v.11; "or even as this tax collector"] shows a judgmental attitude because he makes an instant evaluation on the basis of the man's vocation. . . In effect his prayer is, "I thank you God, that I am such a great guy!" . . . Lachs (1987:324) notes similar and different prayers from later Jewish tradition. 7

    Footnote #7 reads:

    B. Ber. 28b matches the Pharisee's prayer, while b. Ber. 17a is more gracious in valuing the contributions that each person makes when attention is directed to God. In b. Suk 45b a man states that if only one hundred are to be saved, he and his son will be among them; but if only two are saved, they will be he and his son. . . In y. Ber 7d (4.2) a rabbi gives thanks that he is in the synagogue and not in the theater or circus.

    Material in [] is Bobcat's for clarification.

    For a similar example of excessive self-reference, see Luke 12:16-19. The rich man refers to himself in the first person ("I" and "my") eleven times, and in the second person ("you" and "youself") three times, and the third person ("my soul" and "soul") twice. All in the span of four verses.

    It would be interesting to listen to assembly experiences and make comparisons to self reference.

    Abbreviations in footnote: Ber. stands for Berakot, a tractate in the Mishnah. Suk. stands for Sukka. B. refers to the Babylonian Talmud; Y. stands for the Palestinian Talmud.

  • mP
    mP

    ÁrbolesdeArabia

    Good stuff Bobcat and Prologos! Keep up the good Bible Comments and pay no mind to Mp, he is having a bad hair week!

    mP:

    Instead of childishly labelling me, why not give an example where this statement is wrong. Tell me a single direction from Jesus that did not help the Romans.

    Again why is Jesus so obsessed with taxation and slaves being good workers and yet never condemns any of the cruelties of the government ? Why doesnt he tell rich jews to free their slaves ? Was he scared or was he blind or was he a Roman stooge.

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