Elder's decisions with congregation funds £££

by 88JM 9 Replies latest jw friends

  • 88JM
    88JM

    Have you ever been in a congregation (or circuit) where Elders have made very bad choices on spending congegation funds?

    (Summary if you don't want to read it all: Elders planning to squander money on an expensive hall refurbishment while KH flat is falling apart)

    I know there were assembly halls like Dudley who spent a lot of money on their kitchens just before the food arrangements were done away with. The circuit here spent most of the money available in the congregations to buy a circuit flat which was uninhabitable, not in a very good part of town, and also in huge disrepair (smoke damage from a fire in the flat below). This was just before the property crash happened, and as a result, the flat became worth much less than it was bought for (slimboyfat and dozy will probably know what I'm on about). I'm sure situations like this have happened elsewhere too.

    It looks like a similar situation will be happening all over again in the congregation here - bearing in mind it is a pretty small congregation and any issues are a HUGE thing. Also bear in mind that each individual congregation in Scotland is a registered charity (mainly for tax purposes).

    The main congregation here sponsors a smaller "start-up congregation" who meet quite a way away in a rented building. They have been given notice by the landlord that they will have to vacate this building in the near future. The elder overseeing the start-up congregation would like to refurbish an adjoining property. However, it is in an extreme state of disrepair and will take more money than the congregation has available. Even the estimate the brother thinks seems still far too low - this building is an outhouse to look at.

    Now you might think the sensible thing to do would be to at least get a written agreement with the landlord on what the terms of refurbishing one of their buildings would be, and get a professional estimate on the work required first, or even think about looking elsewhere for somewhere to meet before making a descision, and certainly do this before putting anything to the whole congegation like a local needs item.

    Well this is what the local needs here tonight was about - basically the decision seems already made that money the congregation does not have will be spent refurbishing a hovel. The "start-up congregation" is not even sure when it will be evicted from it's existing building yet (though it could well be at short notice). The elder there has a "verbal agreement"with the landlord that they can refurbish the other building and after doing so, will be expempt from rent for an unspecified period of time - none of this is in writing, of course.

    Got that? Now it gets even more complicated.

    The main congregation here (sponsoring the "start-up congregation") is a little unique for a couple of reasons. For one, the kingdom hall is wholly owned by the congregation - no morgage, no rent, nothing paid to the society for it, and the deed still belongs to the congregation, not the society.

    On top of that (literally), the kingdom hall has a small flat which is occupied by a retired brother and sister who pay rent. The rent from this flat is pretty much the main income for the congregation in reality, and the congregation would not be able to afford anything at all were it for the years of rent from this flat. I should also mention that the daughter and son-in-law of this retired couple are also in the congregation.

    This flat has not had any money spent on it since the 70's, and it shows it. In fact, if the authorities inspected it, I'm sure they would condemn the building (the last hall inspection said as much). Recently, our all-new body of elders here have finally decided to spend the least amount possible on this flat to make it liveable, and using the cheapest labour and materials (read: elder DIY). Our previous local needs was about contributing for this actually.

    This is causing quite a division in the congregation, though elders are not yet fully aware of how much. The retired couple in the kingdom hall flat are relatively "popular" and have been in the congregation longer than many - certainly longer than all the elders.

    Many are unhappy that the kingdom hall flat has fallen into such disrepair and are dismayed at the attitude taken to repairing it in such a shoddy manner. Now with this new situation with the sponsored "start-up congregation", it looks like very little will be spent on the kingdom hall flat at all, as it will take more money than the congregation has to refurbish the building for the "start-up congregation".

    As for me - I'm just watching it all from the (fading) sidelines. It does make for good viewing though - it will be interesting to see how this one turns out, espepcially when the C.O. visit comes around in 8 weeks time. I suspect a few brothers will be having a word with the C.O. - not just the elders.

  • Newly Enlightened
    Newly Enlightened

    Interesting. Keep us posted as to the outcome.

    There was an interesting mis-use of Cong. funds in our KH. The P.O gets up on the platform and tells us what a great deal our cong. can get on a riding lawn tractor. Then proceeds to ask for a motion & show of hands. Then goes "oh good, I'm glad you all agree because 'I' already bought it."

    WHAT????

    isn't that misuse of funds since the $$$ belongs to the cong? Then lying about it by making us vote for it when it was already a done deal?

    I'm sure there are some more great stories out there about this subject.

  • 88JM
    88JM

    Has anyone ever seen a vote like that where everyone didn't agree to the show of hands?

    (Funnily enough I have, and it was the P.O. who put his hand up!)

  • tiki
    tiki

    sounds messy - from a ne american viewpoint. my question is why the flat at the kh has gotten in such disrepair? the rent income from it should have been used to maintain it i would think? the couple living there probably have history and they have a nice little situation and maybe don't even realize that their digs are not up to par..........as for the other kh, and funding, well...what about their $$??? i guess i am not accustomed to the way these things work in other countries, but i have never heard in the us of one cong being fiscally responsible for another..............

  • 88JM
    88JM

    tiki - Yes the couple do have a lot of history, and the rent is pretty "reasonable" for a flat in the area. They could get something nicer for the same amount of money with council-subsidised housing though, but I don't think they quite realise that. Also they would be reluctant to move further with the hall being so convenient and travelling costs can be expensive here. The couple are basically just living on their pension.

    They probably don't realise just how bad the flat is, but they are very aware it has problems and what the last inspection report said. They are not happy at all, but that's more about the way they are being treated more than the state of things. Actually, it's other people in the congregation that are even more vocal about it and can see just how bad things are - that's why the problem is even bigger.

    The flat is in disrepair due to the high turnover string-of-elders who have always put the hall flat at bottom priority. Anything else that needed money always took priority, despite the flat being the main source of income for the congregation. The retired couple aren't pioneers or anything, so I guess they didn't have much "status".

    You're right that it is a funny situation about being responsible for another congregation. I wouldn't like to reveal too much detail, as I've probably already given more away about my location than I would like, but that's the way things are. The "start-up congregation" is very small - just one elder and a ministerial servant with a dozen or so publishers - not quite enough for a full congregation.

  • finally awake
    finally awake

    the congregation we used to attend built a new hall in 2006. the new hall came with a second large lot adjacent, so a lot of grass to mow. the idiot elders refused to buy a decent riding mower, instead they wasted more money on old (like 30+ years old) beat up tractors with mowing decks. half the time when Just Ron would go to mow the grass, the tractor wouldn't start, or something would break half way through. He'd end up borrowing my mom's riding mower to finish up. Also, the elders refused to pay someone to come in and smooth out the ditch along the edge of the property and put down rock to prevent weed growth. Therefore, some poor schmuck (aka Just Ron) would have to weed eat the entire thing because it was too steep to mow with the tractor. It ran down one entire edge of the property, so not a quick task. It was also usually muddy and wet, being a ditch. Just Ron would spend all day mowing and trimming out there, and 99% of the time the other brother assigned to mow that week wouldn't show up at all.

  • Balaamsass
    Balaamsass

    Most Elders are horrible money managers, and too proud to admit it.

  • 88JM
    88JM

    They're also bad at DIY

  • besty
    besty

    020 8906 2211 - ask for an informal chat with a counsellor

  • 88JM
    88JM

    I'll do a reverse charges call

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