by goddidit 9 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • goddidit

    I have a few questions but first let me lay out what I think I know and please correct me if I'm wrong.

    There are 'normal' JWs and there are elders. The elders have had a kind of promotion (they way they see it) and have some 'priviliges' and access to publications that 'normal' JWs don't. The org attempts to keep these publications secret but some have leaked, hence some people know about them.

    So as an outsider it seems this may be the levels thing that (for example) scientologists employ to keep their flock in just the right amount of darkness.

    Like, when you join they tell you select info, then later you get a bit more etc. Presumably because you need to accept level 1 before you're gullible enough for level 2 etc.

    So my questions are:
    1. Is the JW org employing the levels thing here?
    2. If so, how many levels are there?

    Thanks all

  • Honeybucket


  • goddidit

    "marked" ?

  • Balaamsass



    Ministerial Servants


    Service Commitee

    COBE -(Presiding Overseer)

    City Overseer

    Circuit Overseer & District Overseers

    Service Department & Legal Department & PR Dept.

    Governing Body

    $$ Money Men, Satan, Molech or God- Depending on your opinion.

  • clarity

    goddit ... looks like she 'marked' it to read later.

    There are many levels yes.

    You probably know most of them, almost 100

    posts on here.......?


    They preach equality & and no clergy/layity class,

    but that is a big bunch of BS!

    Why don't you start a list .... and if you miss any

    I'm sure posters will fill it in.


    Where does it start.........

    return visit

    bible study

    unbaptised publisher

    baptised publisher

    vacation pioneer

    fulltime pioneer


    ministerial servant




    ministry servant(?)



  • InterestedOne

    If you are just a "study," they restrict the materials they let you have to things like the "What Does The Bible Really Teach" booklet, the "New World Translation" version of the Bible, and of course the public Watchtower and Awake.

    Even though they let you come to the meetings where they study material like the "Our Kingdom Minstry" leaflet, the Watchtower "Study Edition" magazine, the "Benefit From Theocratic Ministry" book, and the "Organized To Do Jehovah's Will" book, they won't let you have any of them. When I was a study, I asked my study conductor if I may have or even borrow any of these items to read at home, and the response was a flat out "NO, you are not ready." When I kept asking him about it, he said, "Please stop asking me because I can't give them to you."

    There is also a Pioneer book that only Pioneers can have, not the regular JW's.

    You probably know that only elders can have the "Shepherd The Flock" book.

    Oh another thing: If you commit to the special "Auxiliary Pioneer" offer during Memorial season, you are granted the privilege of sitting in on the regular Pioneer meetings. Normally, I'm pretty sure Auxiliary Pioneers are not allowed to sit in on the regular Pioneer meetings.

  • Aussie Oz
    Aussie Oz

    The pioneer book is not 'secret' like the elders though.

    We were told we could share what was in it with regular publishers when we got home from school.

    JWs will tell you there are no levels. There are not levels in the sense of ''I am a level 4 JW and you are only a level 2" etc, but they do restrict information in written form till you are deemed spiritualy strong enough to move from 'milk' to 'solid food'.

    Still, it makes no difference, most are as dumb as a box of rocks...i was!


  • Bobcat

    To be fair, all large organizations probably have some level of information control. For example, in a large business, the CEO and his circle know things that the next level of management don't know. They, in turn, know things that hourly workers are not privy to. The individual worker is aware of things that he might not let his children know about.

    Some of it is very necessary. For example, HR keeps personal information from getting out (or should anyways).

    What makes the Society (and perhaps others like them) extrordinary is the level of information flow control. Considering that it is all supposed to originate from one universal and accessible book (the Bible) and one man (Jesus) who said "all you are brothers," the amount of partitioning is amazing. But it has, as one of its purposes, control of the individuals within the organization. Even the disfellowshipping arrangement shows this control as it purposely isolates the individual, not just puts him out of the organization. The DFed person knows thinks that the run of the mill outsider does not. So it is necessary to neutralize him to the extent possible. (I'm just speaking from the WT viewpoint here.)

    In the WT case, much of the information control is accomplished by extreme peer pressure.

    Try breaking, or rather ignoring the system and see what happens: Read non WT literature to increase your knowledge of a Bible subject; Put in pioneer hours but do not sign up for pioneering. Pray for non-JWs during a cong. prayer. You won't be congratulated.

  • Splash

    I think it's interesting that when the CO comes to visit, there's often a 'pioneer meeting' with him.

    The first half hour includes auxilliary and regular pioneers. Then the Aux's are dismissed so the final 30 mins are for the regular pioneers only.

    Same with the Elders and Servants meeting with the CO at the end of his visit.


  • leaving_quietly

    @Balsamass - there is no longer a City Overseer. That position was eliminated. No wonder... it was kinda useless anyway.

    Are there levels with the intent of keeping some in the dark? I would have to say yes. The "Shepherd" book that elders use now is one such example. Only elders get to have one and when one no longer serves, the other elders are supposed to ask for their copy back. What could they possibly want to keep hidden? I used to serve as an elder, and I've read that book cover to cover (unlike many fellow elders who didn't know the contents unless they had a JC.) So, what's so secret? How about policies of things they can and cannot do. For example, they CAN start a JC when someone celebrates a holiday that is religious in nature or that violates neutrality. That means birthdays are NOT something they can touch. This was brought out a the special elder's school, too. If the average JW found that out, they would start celebrating birthdays left and right.

    What else? Oh, if a married couple decide to call it quits, unless there's some form of immorality involved, elders CANNOT get involved. At least, that's what the book says. Not true in reality, as many here know.

    Even on the elder body there are levels. The "Service Committee" made up of the Coordinator, Secretary and Service Overseer, for example. They make many decisions alone without the input of the rest of the body. I have seen some elder bodies take this particular committee very, very seriously. Fortunately, the body I served on did not and was more loosy-goosy with that arrangement.

    There are definitely levels, too, among average JWs. If a young woman does not marry a pioneer, ministerial servant or elder, others think poorly of her. If a young brother is not pioneering or serving as a ministerial servant or elder, others think poorly of him. It's all about position, at least in the minds of middle-aged to older JWs. The younger ones, it seems, could care less.

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