Which is the worst WT label ..."causing division" or "brazen conduct' ?

sir82

Tough call - they are both loaded emotional terms.

I'd probably vote for "causing divisions", as it seems to imply wanting to take others with you. "Brazen conduct" is typically just the one person misbehaving.

unbridled lust, ... outrageousness, shamelessness,
insolence." Another lexicon defines a·sel'gei·a as conduct
that "violates all bounds of what is socially acceptable."
Rather than relating to bad conduct of a
somewhat petty or minor nature, "brazen conduct"
describes acts that reflect an attitude that betrays disrespect,
disregard, or even contempt for divine standards,
laws, and authority. (elders manual)...

Though this is not an exhaustive list, brazen
conduct may be involved in the following if the
wrongdoer has an insolent, contemptuous attitude
made evident by a practice of these things:
• Willful, continued, unnecessary association
with disfellowshipped nonrelatives despite
repeated counsel.-

Is being separate from the world not also a form of causing division ? Is there such a thing as good "causing division ?

Do Jehovah's Witnesses cause divisions ? . ...by separating themselves from society as a whole. .....by causing cause their children to be separate from schoolmates....... by causing divisions in the workplace ?

WTWizard

You could be in for "brazen conduct" if you do just about anything. This could be anything. All it takes is for a hounder to counsel you about it, or apply it to something you are doing from the platform. It could be something as simple as getting a Fenix LD22 flashlight and a HP20 headlight, a dozen low self-discharge NiMH batteries, and a NiMH battery charger in response to the superstorm. Brother Hounder thinks this is not "trusting in Jehovah", and incorporates it in a talk about getting rid of such fine flashlights and headlamps if you have them, or not getting them if you haven't yet. Now, to be charged with "brazen conduct", all the hounder needs is for someone to subsequently be caught with these lights or a similar one (like the Nitecore EA2 or O-Light T-25), and you are "guilty of brazen conduct".

With "causing division", they would have to find you guilty of actually encouraging others to purchase similar items after being told not to from the platform. You hear the line "Some brothers are getting expensive flashlights and batteries with expensive chargers after the storm. Doing this betrays that you are not trusting in Jehovah." Next day, someone is found with the Fenix HP20 headlight. This would go under "brazen conduct", but not "causing division". If someone is encouraging others to buy quality flashlights after this talk, they would be under "causing division". Also, if someone gets a flashlight after falling in an apartment building with bad or no lighting (the bulb blows) to prevent such a fall, after such counsel, they are in for "brazen conduct". If they grumble that they already got hurt once "trusting in Jehovah" and threaten to get a quality light or encourage others to get one, they are in for "causing division".

As for me, brazen conduct or not, I would rather trust in my Fenix HP20 headlight (which is a professional grade headlight) at work if the lights go out, my Nitecore EA1 if they go out while I am in a big box store, and my Fenix LD22 should I ever get dragged back to an a$$embly or in field circus and the lights go out while in a hallway or at the a$$embly. At least those lights, along with the multiple battery chargers I acquired, will not let me down the way Jehovah will. Ditto my LED light bulbs for energy savings and to preserve my health instead of the squiggly things, my Christmas lights to give me plenty of color all summer (and winter), silver in case of hyperinflation, and my vitamins to boost my health. And they are cheaper. Have you seen any Fenix LD22's Witnesses coming to your door?

dreamgolfer

i prefer "brazen Division" and "Causing conduct"

tiki

whatever happened to "conduct unbecoming a christian"? i think the new brazen moniker is spot on for their idea of keeping the r&f in line....it rather implies that anything beyond the rules and regulations - including thinking and gasp, horror of horrors, daring to reason and come to a logical conclusion on one's own - brazen!!!!!!!!! causing division or brazen conduct - either way you're dead meat.

DATA-DOG

Brazen will be whatever the Elders say it is. If they can't decide then they ask the CO, and it will be decided by him. Questioning and causing a division would definitely be brazen, like Korah. Any apostasizing would be brazen, but all brazen conduct would not have to apostasy. My 2 cents. Hey WT WIZARD!! You should make a list of disaster/emergency items that a family should have set aside. Let's say the power goes out for 2 weeks, what would I need? You can make a separate post so as not to ki-jack this one, or just give a good website.

Refriedtruth

When they Dfed me the appeal committee chair elder said (quote) In Israel there was no reprieve for a capital offense (unquote) they mealy-mouth without saying anything of specific substance.I never found out what my 'capital offense' was.I only knew I was never looking back.

Phizzy

I think I would prefer to be DF'd for "brazen conduct", it is a lot more exciting sounding than "causing divisions".

It is far more likely to be true in my case too, I couldn't give a flying f**k about those who are stupid enough to still be in the WT web now, it is their fault.

But I do fancy a bit of brazen conduct now and then, even at my age, any of you girls up for it ?

sd-7

Neither. Dial A for Apostate.

--sd-7