Dying to find out if you made it to Paradise

by Juan Viejo2 5 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Juan Viejo2
    Juan Viejo2

    I remember as a JW kid listening to a special talk about life after death by Lester Dugan, a circuit overseer whose mother attended our Kingdom Hall. I don't think he was our circuit servant (in fact I'm pretty sure he was not), but he would visit our hall about twice a year when he took time to see his elderly mom.

    His talk was about life after death and achieving paradise through good works and staying active in the preaching work. After nearly 60 years, I remember very little of the bulk of his talk, but I do remember a couple of questions that he answered afterwards:

    Q. When a member of the 144,000 anointed ones dies, how are they transformed?

    Dugan: Since 1918 those who are anointed and die in faithfulness to Jehovah and Jesus will be transformed from their human shell directly into spirit and will ascend into heaven as Jesus did. Upon arrival, that chosen one will be seated next to Jesus and be gathered to the other chosen ones.

    Q. When someone with the earthly hope dies, how will they know if they made it through the resurrection and into paradise earth?

    Dugan: To them it will be an instant transformation as well. Because the "dead know nothing" when they are dead, during the period of their death they have no sensation of anything at all. So if they are faithful members of the earthly class, upon their death they will wake up to a paradise around them. It will seem immediate to them - as if they had not waited at all. What a wonderful blessing to those loved ones and those ancient worthies who served Jehovah faithfully. Imagine those Israelite soldiers who followed Joshua and David into battle against the enemies of Jehovah's kingdom; killed by a Hittite sword one minute and waking up in paradise the next.

    Q. So if one of our loved ones (those who are faithful) die from accident, disease, or old age - are you saying that to them there is no waiting for paradise?

    Dugan: In a sense, that is true. Think of life before you were born, whether that was thousands or even millions of years. To you everything began the day you were born. You were in your mother's womb alive, but unknowing - and then you are born and aware of your surroundings. That is the way it is for Jehovah's faithful followers when they die. The grave is like a womb holding them until their rebirth into paradise with a perfect body.

    He wrapped up his talk by assuring us all in the audience that we should not be too sad when one of our loved ones or "friends in the truth" dies. Yes, we will miss them, but for them the transformation will seem instantaneous. Unlike the Catholics that believe in holding places like Limbo and Purgatory, or places of eternal punishment like Hell, Jehovah's Witnesses know that death is not something to fear, but to look forward to - instant transformation from imperfect life in an awful world, to a perfect life in a perfect body in a garden like Eden.

    When Richard Dawkins was asked if (as an atheist) he was afraid of dying, he replied that he had not existed for billions of years and did just fine. Before he was born he felt no pain, no anxiety, no feelings at all. He figured that when he died that he would simply return to that same condition that he enjoyed before he was born.

    So for those of you who believe in life after death, if Dugan was right, then you should know instantly upon your death where you will end up. I figure it will be like the time I had to undergo major surgery that took well over an hour. The nurse that was managing my anathesia hooked me up and asked if I was ready. I figured that I would either wake up or I wouldn't. Either way would be painless. He tapped me on my clavical and said "have a nice rest." What seemed to be an instant I woke up in ICU in a recovery bed with my family all around telling me that everything went well and that I would be fine. To me it seemed as if I closed my eyes and then opened them a second later in an entirely different environment.

    JV

  • kurtbethel
    kurtbethel

    They make it sound like a fairy tale. Why not click your ruby slippers together, there's no place like home.

    Watchtower Bible & Tract Society Jehovah's Witnesses paradise bait and switch ruby slippers Oz

  • panhandlegirl
    panhandlegirl

    When one of the anointed (bro Diedz) died in our cong, another anointed bro (Numan, from Australia) gave the talk. He said the bro who had died was in a state much like purgatory. When I questioned him about it, he said he had misspoken, he said he meant to say that the bro had to be oriented into heaven, he could not just go directly into Heaven. I didn't think that was strange because he would be new to the place and might need to know a few things before he was allowed in. I agree with both Dawkins and you. I feel that when I die, I will just not be, much like before I was born. I don't look forward to that but what can I do about it? If I was fortunate enough to be brought back to life, I feel that the time I was not alive would be much like being asleep during surgery. I would awaken without realizing anytime had elapsed. Because I can not do anything about dying, I really don't worry about it. I do know I would not be happy in a Paradise controlled by the GB and the elders.I had not really thought about how life in Paradiase would be until someone described it on a post here. I could not abide that type of life.

    PHG

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    Well, you guys are in for a pleasant surprise. Yes, you'll know in an instant because you'll be looking down at your body while you're standing above it. At some point you will be greeted by family members and ushered into the spirit realm, where Jesus preached to the spirits in prison. There will still be a prison for the unrighteous, but it will be a Paradise for those who are good, decent, honorable people. You may even be met by people you knew before you were born...people who lived at different times upon the earth (see Jeremiah 1:5). Don't ever think you could be satisfied staying forever in a garden like Eden! We don't know what we'll become, but the righteous will become joint heirs with Christ, inheriting all that the Father has.

    After the resurrection, when your body and spirit will be reunited, you will be able to visit other kingdoms and glories throughout the Universe and things that will amaze you. The earth will later be cleansed by fire and will become a brilliant planet composed of both glory and beauty, suitable for the presence of God. Your body will not be a body of flesh and blood, but a resurrected body of flesh, bone and spirit. Like Jesus, you will be able to go through walls and ceilings, go vast distances at the speed of thought and enjoy relationships with people you've known for untold generations.

    At death, you will not know "nothing" as stated in Ecclesiastes. The writer of that book was not even a prophet. He was a philosopher and knew nothing of either life or death. Solomon was a king, and someone who had ruined his life through the taking of many heathen wives and had erected many heathen sites of worship. He was old, tired and had a lousy outlook on life. The NT writers talk of the body as being a tabernacle, with a spirit inside. Leaving it was like taking off a coat or a glove. You may not believe me now, but if you remain righteous, you've got some amazing surprises. Just don't put me in a stupid garden. Adam was never intended to stay there. He was supposed to fall and then be redeemed. Only that way can we, his descendents, become like unto God, as the ancient Christians taught.

  • Juan Viejo2
    Juan Viejo2

    Cold Steel - That's good to know. But what about my dog? Will she be transformed in an instant and join me? Life would just not be worth living if I didn't have my dog with me.

    All this time I thought every living thing will eventually die and be reabsorbed into the universe of mass and energy from whence we came. But your logical description has cleared up all of my confusion. You are a wise and educated person. I can hardly wait to meet you on the other side.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7E6sihLgdU

    JV

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    All animals, like men, are eternal. And all animals are covered because of the atonement of Christ and will be resurrected. I’ve heard some Christians say that animals were simply designed either for food, labor or companionship, and thus they don’t have spirits. JWs teach that only humans will be resurrected, but anyone who’s been around a good dog (or cat) knows that animals can love, hate, be envious, feel embarrassment and experience humor. My mother’s cat even launched itself at my dad one evening when he suffered a cramp in his leg. He began moaning and carrying on loudly and reached out for my mother for support. The cat apparently thought my mother was being attacked and he literally put himself between her and my dad, then went for his leg with tooth and claw. Unfortunately, the cramp was continuing through all this and my dad was yelling, “Get the cat off of me! Get him off!” My mother was able to pry the cat off, but it growled menacingly until my dad collapsed on the bed with some salt he takes for such cramps. I also read of an intruder who was attacked as he ascended the stairs to rape the homeowner upstairs. The cat was black and the intruder never saw it coming. He ended up falling down the staircase and breaking his neck. The guy had a long record of criminal violence and sexual assault. (And there are plenty of stories about dogs that defend their human buddies and their families.) I think people who don’t believe animals will be resurrected really don’t know much about them.

    So yeah, your dog will survive death as a spirit and will be resurrected just like all humans, both the righteous and the wicked. And chances are that he'll look as forward to seeing you as you are in seeing him.

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