Jehovah's Witnesses, the government and MONEY....

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    chapstick

    Monday, October 22, 2012

    Raleigh City Council votes in secret to give Jehovah’s Witnesses $150,000

    Posted by Will Huntsberry @willhuntsberry on Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 1:07 PM

    It’s typical for two affable Jehovah’s Witnesses in oversized business suits to make the neighborhood rounds, knocking on doors. But what about when the whole organization comes knocking at City Hall?

    Earlier this month, the Raleigh City Council voted behind closed to doors to give the Jehovah’s Witnesses $150,000 to hold their annual convention in the PNC arena next year. It shouldn’t be a surprise. Since 2008, Raleigh has given $875,000 to the religious group for that gathering.

    The City Council subsidizes the event—the money actually goes to PNC arena—because it brings millions of dollars to hotels and restaurants and hundreds of thousands of dollars in tax revenue to the city.

    But giving money to a religious group behind closed doors also calls into question two of the most fundamental concepts in the United States’ Constitution: the separation of church and state and that government should not conduct its business in secret.

    “It’s no different than any other group that asks,” argues Mayor Nancy McFarlane. “We have groups all the time that bring large multi-day conventions that are going to spend millions of dollars in the community. Would I discriminate against them by saying I’m not even going to consider it because you’re a religious group?”

    Many think yes.

    “This seems like a plain violation of the separation of church and state and the Constitution,” says Alex Luchenitser of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, based in Washington, D.C.. “Government can’t fund religious meetings.”

    The establishment clause is the section of the Constitution, which guarantees the separation of church and state. Luchenitser says, “It has always been interpreted as preventing government funds from supporting religious activities or events.”

    But funding religion for economic impact reasons is not uncommon. In Kentucky, for instance, owners of a creationist museum are set to receive millions in subsidies from state government to build a Christian-based theme park.

    The economics of the decision for Raleigh to subsidize the Jehovah’s Witnesses convention are sound. In 2011, the city invested $150,000 and reaped $300,000 in tax revenue from hotel and food and beverage tax, according to Greater Raleigh Convention and Visitors Bureau (GRCVB) records. That’s not accounting for the millions raked in by Raleigh hotels and restaurants.

    But Luchenitser says the fact that a convention makes money simply shouldn’t enter into it. “You can’t ask the taxpayer to support a religious belief they don’t hold,” he says.

    While it’s uncommon for the city to subsidize any convention—it has never allocated money to another religious event—the practice of city tax dollars going toward religious groups extends far beyond City Hall.

    The convention bureau frequently allocates tax dollars levied by Raleigh and Wake County to groups of all kinds who wish to rent out the Raleigh Convention Center. To date that has included a Catholic group, Baptists, AME Zion, the United Methodist Church and Lutherans, just to name a few, according to one official with the bureau.

    Since the Jehovah’s Witnesses convention brings in roughly 22,000 people over two weekends, it’s too big to fit in the convention center. That’s why the City Council handled the economic incentive, instead of GRCVB.

    “The bottom line, if the group meets the strict funding criteria and contracts hotels rooms with our hotel partners while generating direct economic impact … we are open to possibly assisting regardless of the group type,” says Loren Gold of the convention bureau.

    The councilors’ decision to discuss and vote on giving the money to the Jehovah’s Witnesses in a closed session meeting, not open to the public or reporters, is also questionable.

    It relies on a piece of public meeting law that allows closed sessions to discuss bringing new business to an area through economic incentive. Closed sessions are allowed “to discuss matters relating to the location or expansion of industries or other businesses,” the statute reads.

    The council invoked similar privilege when providing economic incentive to technology companies Red Hat and Citrix to locate their businesses downtown.

    That justification doesn’t hold water for Amanda Martin, who specializes in media law as the North Carolina Press Association’s general counsel.

    "I know of no basis under the open meetings law to have a discussion like this in closed session,” she wrote to the Indy. “The exemption that permits discussion of business location or expansion was not intended to be used in a generic way to discuss things that might bring more commerce to the City."

    City Attorney Thomas McCormick was out of the country at the time this article was published and unavailable for comment.

    Going forward, Luchenitser says his group will be asking the city to discontinue its funding of the Jehovah’s Witnesses convention and reverse its recent decision.

    After speaking with an Indy reporter, the American Civil Liberties Union of North Carolina also said it plans to monitor the situation.

    "Any time the government makes taxpayers help foot the bill for a private religious gathering, there are obvious constitutional concerns,” wrote Chris Brook, legal director of ACLU-NC in an email. “Instances like this all too easily create an impression that the government is endorsing the religious event in question and doing so on the taxpayers' dime.”

    Tags: Jehovah's Witnesses , Raleigh City Council , PNC Arena , ACLU, N.C. Press Association , Americans United for Separation of Church and State , Greater Raleigh Convention & Visitors Bureau

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    I am a huge proponent of the separation of church and state, however...

    It seems to me that the separation of church and state is only being violated if:
    a) religious groups are being given preferential treatment
    b) religious groups are being denied the same treatment given other groups.

    If it truly is common to give subsidize groups to attract business to the area, then the important thing is not necessarily the identity of the group, but the criteria being used to determine if a group will bring enough business, and to make sure that criteria is used uniformly across all groups that apply.

    report 0 likes, 4 dislikes like dislike Posted by turbodog on 10/24/2012 at 12:03 PM

    @Margaret Schultz. You offer proof that Jehovah's Witnesses have the truth by saying Jesus Christ returned in 1914? As surely as "the emperor has no clothes," you have been convinced of something that did not happen. The truth: Christ is not invisible in a secret place ruling through the Watchtower Society Mt. 25:23, "Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
    As to your answer on brainwashing: the brainwashed individual is the last to know about it, otherwise she/she wouldn't be brainwashed.
    You talk about charity. Really, Margaret, think about what you said. How can you call JWs charitable when they refuse to help anyone who is not a Jehovah's Witness? You don't care for the sick, cloth the naked, feed the hungry, visit those in prison." Those who do not these acts of charity, Jesus said, would be cast into everlasting fire.
    I'm aware, Margaret, that you don't realize it, but you lie. You lie because the Watchtower has taught you to lie, even to lie to yourself, saying, "I don't lie." The Watchtower's doctrine concerning Christ qualifies for "antichrist." Look it up.

    report 11 likes, 1 dislike like dislike Posted by Joe B. Hewitt on 10/24/2012 at 7:33 AM

    1914 - ...was a megahit. We hit the 'year', the 'season' (autumn, due to calculating from the autumn of 607 BCE) and the 'event'. (the first horseman, Jesus invisible global arrival, marked by the second horseman - global war) (Mount of Olives speach a parallel) Armageddon will commence before 'earth' succumbs to man.

    Blood - 'One blood transfusion infected all of Mr Paul Michael Glaziers family with deadly AIDS. That's only 'one' harmful bug of many. (a screamin hint of what's in the denial file) Also, the body has to recover from the liquid foreign tissue, stealing healing power and focus at a very critical time. No wonder statistics show
    much faster and better recovery with non blood or no blood procedures

    Brainwashing - History shows we have sidestepped this unhealthy mob phenomenon all through the years.

    Charity - Though we are very charitable in many ways, we spearhead only 'one'. It's the one that the head of our congregation, Jesus Christ, has commissioned the Christian congregation with. I can't help but appreciate the relief work of both the Red Cross and the Salvation Army, but we can't lend our money to certain activities we don't condone other than the relief work. (Blood - Red Cross, Teachings - Salvation Army) Tough one. (Yes I would let these help me, due to I can be more selective of what I condone. I know, tough one)

    report 2 likes, 7 dislikes like dislike Posted by Margaret Schultz on 10/24/2012 at 1:42 AM

    "the money actually goes to PNC arena" .......... please note, it goes to a public facility and is a pocket book decision. Nothing religious or underhanded about sound economics.

    report 2 likes, 5 dislikes like dislike Posted by Neil Smith on 10/23/2012 at 11:28 PM

    @Jerry Coats; You did well in defending the Watchtower without resorting to name-calling. It is apparent that you are an intelligent, thoughtful man, and no doubt sincere in your belief in the WTS. I propose that you can be absolutely convinced something is true when in reality it is absolutely false. Take for example the followers of Jim Jones who poisoned their children and committed suicide at his command. You look at the results of their devotion and see murder and infaticide.Look at the result of the WTS's dictim on blood transfusions: 250,000+ have died. Would you be afraid to read my book, Rescuing Slaves of the Watchtower? If you read it if I gave it to you? If not, why not? Wouldn't you get into serious trouble with the elders of your congregation and the Society hierarchy in New York?

    report 9 likes, 2 dislikes like dislike

    Posted by Joe B. Hewitt on 10/23/2012 at 9:36 PM

  • Indian Larry
    Indian Larry

    Does anyone know how much RBC arena cost to rent for the weekend? That would be good to know.

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    Less that the WTBTS is getting from the city I'll wager... and they are getting contributions on top of it.

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