by humblepotato 72 Replies latest jw friends
All you have, all anyone has, even JWs, is this moment you are in right now. That's it. Yesterday is gone, tomorrow may never be no matter what you believe. Make this moment in your life count, and everyone after that and at the end of your life it will be enough, because you didn't waste them.
Or would you rather put off all your hopes, plans and dreams on the fantasy of petting pandas? That's is not going to happen, so pretending won't make it so.
Family issues are one thing, but the 'God thing' is another. That description indicates where I am now, but I think I had a rather relaxed journey from a point, not so long before I started my journey out, where I spent a whole day in fervent prayer telling Yahweh and Jesus how much I loved them both, on to a point where I could be described as an atheist.
Do you really think it matters a lot whether you believe (and talk to) a personage whose existence we can only attempt to imagine? OR, whether we do not believe in such a personage?
Even when I was a mentally out and got the big pork chop award, I was still a believer. I suggest our journey from there should be gradual and relaxed.
It will not make a skerrick of difference in your ordinary everyday life, whether you believe in a divinity or not. As you may observe, the lives of unbelievers is not much different to that of believers. Good things happen to both and sometimes bad things.
I say all the above while acknowledging that I get a bit of fun out of ridiculing the supposed existence of some super-human divinity with supposed super powers, but who never deigns to demonstrate them to us.
Just relax and have an interesting trip to wherever you finish up - grin.
Hey potatoman...
you sound almost like me at that age. I was rapidly accelerated through the ranks and also put in charge of accounts lol.
anyway, I also went through that process once I embraced atheism. The idea of paradise and seeing your dead loved ones again is so compelling. It's hard to abandon. And that's largely why most JWs put up with the misery of being in such a burdensome religion.
but I found a thunderf00t video that really woke me up and changed my thoughts on "everlasting life" for good. Please give this a look--it's only about 2 minutes, but it may be just what you needed to hear. Welcome to the rest of your life.
I WANT, so badly, to believe in a God... and I keep looking for shreds of evidence that he exists (or if he does exist...that he cares about us).
Hi HP,
When I left, I came close to atheism but turned back to (Deism at least) in college. But I didn't embrace Christ until I understood how God deals with sin through judgment. That realization was such a epiphany to me. He could of course have made sin impossible or he could judge sin. God chose to judge sin instead of making it impossible, thus preserving free will. Then he gave his only begotten who agreed to "become sin for us" in our stead. He loves us that much.
Many will argue that to allow a sinful world to continue is unkind. This of course would mean our non-existence. I personally have a hard time with that thought. It seems like giving up to me. I like victories. I like over-coming obstacles. There is much victory in Christ. I've sen it.
I find the world fascinating. The flowers, the trees, sunshine, various landscapes, the beach, cool breezes, the magnitude of the coding in DNA, physical characteristics of the universe, and good friends and family. There are a number of things in our world that is out of whack too.
However, God says there is no such thing as a true atheist. Romans 1:20 - For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made.
God explains why some people claim to be atheist too:
Romans 1: 19 - For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
People, including myself in the past suppressed the truth about God's existence. It is certainly easy to see why people do this because of the many people who misrepresent God and the hurt they have caused others in the exercise of their error. However, ALL people know God exists deep down.
Some people will claim that this God who supposedly doesn't exist is guilty of rape, slavery, and all sorts of terrible things. I researched all of the claims made by those that don't like God and have found satisfying answers to most of them. Christian Think Tank and CARM does a fair job of refuting most of these kinds of claims against God.
Suppression is a psychological tool the mind uses as an emotional regulation strategy. Many religiously abused people associate God with dictatorial control. I have personally found a tremendous freedom in Christ and much fatherly love (gentle discipline too). Others have not experienced this in God because they haven't made friends with him through the blood (covenant) of Christ. Our works are utterly useless in making friends with God.
Bart Ehrman once had his charismatic youth group leader use a bottle of hotel shampoo to ‘anoint’ his dying father, and tried to persuade his father to confess specific sins” (“Former Fundamentalist ‘Debunks’ Bible,” CNN, May 15, 2009). Ehrman says he was angry at the man for acting “self-righteous” and “hypocritical.” This event, though, does not reflect negatively on a biblicist faith. It simply proves that this youth leader was a misguided man. The Bible does not instruct us to anoint people with shampoo.
Anger at God may be seen as displaced aggression in my opinion as well, which is common in people as well as animals.
Anyway, sorry to ramble. Welcome to the board. All the best on your journey!
- Perry
Anyway, sorry to ramble. - Perry
No you are not.
In 13 years you have never given an honest answer to any objection to your superstitious beliefs.
You are trying to sell a god who is a moral monster and in order to do so you have to deny facts about reality.
Perry it sounds like you are one of those ridiculous pre-suppositionalists.
You and they have no authority to speak on subjects of deism. Ignoring any and all evidence is a cop out of epic proportions.
Humblepotato, welcome to this forum.
Cappytan, your words could be exactly mine. We're absolutely on the same page on this. I also wanted to believe. But in truth, we just don't know, and the odds are so incredibly remote that the best course of action is to act as if he didn't existed, and keep a healthy, skeptical yet tolerant open mind. Works for me at least. Which, of course, doesn't mean we will suddenly start acting unethically or immorally. There's moral life beyond religious boundaries.
I would also add this question that bothered me: IF God exists, and IF he created the universe and life itself, IF he's truly that much powerful and good and wise and self-sufficient, why would he require us to worship and serve him? I'd be perfectly comfortable in loving said God as a father, and listen to his advice, but why the imposition of worship and service? Why on earth would I, as a father, require my children to worship and serve me and die for me? What kind of a moral freak would that make me? Of course, that's when the concept of organized religion comes in and you realize that all that's been taught to mankind about God and deities fits religious agendas that demand the believer's life as a sacrifice to them, not God.
Think about it.
Eden
What cappytan said ^^ !
Welcome spud, take your time. I'm two years into the process of awakening, I blew my load too soon with the missus, the elders investigated me, I had to sloooow down and find out where I stood before I had the confidence to talk to the other half honestly. I didn't think it would take this long, but it is a process and we have to have patience.
As for the God thing, I don't believe we can know. What I do believe is there's overwhelming evidence for evolution, and IF at the end we find out there IS a God then so be it. I can't choose what to believe. He'll understand!
My outlook is so fresh and bright now, the world was all wicked and doomed when I was a believer, but now, despite the bad stuff, I see SO MANY good people doing selfless things trying to make the world better for others WITHOUT the motivation of fear or guilt or the dangling carrot of a reward. Life is precious and beautiful and hopefully by the time I'm about to die they'll be able to do rejuvenating head transplants!
The Bible does not instruct us to anoint people with shampoo.
No, but it does condone and endorse rape, slavery, genocide, abortion, murder and theft. Your god, but his own standards, is the biggest sinner of all and a bit of a shit weasel.
When you become Godless at last, these are the things that make you happy, clear headed, and at peace:
1. Reason, Not Superstition
2. Ethics, Not Dogma
3. Respect, Not Worship
4. Courage, Not Fear
5. Fact, Not Myth
6. Morality, Not Religion
7. Clarity, Not Delusion
8. Good, Not God
9. Skeptic, Not Cynic
10. Rationality, Not Ideology
