Why are people burning their city to the ground in Baltimore? How doe Looting and Mob Violence Help?

by PokerPlayerPhil 184 Replies latest social current

  • Hold Me-Thrill Me
    Hold Me-Thrill Me

    A tale of two cities, of two systems.

    What is happening in Baltimore is the fault of one of the systems operating in the U.S. The system which leaves too many in the dirt while promoting materialism, the system which allows too many poorly run inner city schools to continue to ruin the young, the system where some parents teach their children that they are victims of the system and will always be victims of the system. The system which is torn between believing, on the one hand, that the best way to help the disadvantaged is to give them an easy handout and, on the other hand, that the best way to help the disadvantaged is to force them to man up. (Neither works to build up a man or woman but only to destroy their dignity.)

    The system where trust in institutions once trusted has been largely eroded. The system where the common man has been encouraged to measure his self-worth in what he owns rather than in his self-respect and dignity. The system where politicians are not up to the task of leading but instead seem to put party before country. Political aims above all else. The system where the government appears to be more influenced by corporations and lobbies than by the voters who elected them. The system that reacts to injustices only when it must, after the burning not before. After the burning of blacks, after the burning of homosexuals, after the burning of the homeless, after the burning of almost everything minority related.

    However, there is another system running concurrently with the one causing the problems in the U.S. That system is the one which truly holds the country together. The system of giving support to our neighbor whether he be here in the U.S. or overseas. The system which believes in miracles, the miracle that peoples from around the world can live together in peace though they come from countries where they once warred against one another. A system where hope runs deep and where hope in man's ability to get things right to make things better is the drive that makes almost all heartaches a little easier to bear.

    The system that promotes American unity while at the same time respecting the important cultural self-identification that immigrants from every nation bring with them. They are able to maintain (and have respected) their personal beliefs and cultures while at the same time integrating into the American system. It is also a system that promotes self-examination both personally and nationally. A system where the freedom to ridicule all things powerful is deeply embedded in the culture encouraging us to maintain our mental independence from all things powerful. A system where love for our fellow man even when not practiced is still the goal. A system that opens doors to the poor and all minorities rather closing them. A system that calls for fairness and keeping true to the American ideals reflected in the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. A system which takes pride in its young men and women who volunteer to defend their country or who join humanitarian associations here and abroad. A system which strives for doing a little more good than before.

    A system which is capable of changing course quickly and rightly if the majority should chose to do so. A highly productive system one of the most productive systems in the world if not the most productive, imo. A system in which almost every nationality, religion, race, and culture is represented in almost every strata makes the U.S. the greatest and best experiment in government ever attempted. It is this inclusiveness that ensures strength and productivity. We have the strengths and capabilities of all nations working together, working in all endeavors. Diversity makes the U.S. strong.

    The world knows our weaknesses and sins but we are not defined by our sins we are defined by our continued attempts to be better than we are. To not be satisfied with the present but rather to reach for a better future even if it means remaking ourselves every 30 years or so. Even if it means looking in the mirror and turning away in horror.

    It is this second system working within the U.S. that supplies the energy, the hope, so necessary in a world that loves negativity, boundless negative criticisms, forgetting the good and highlighting the negative. Seeing the negative is important, very important. We cannot move forward without seeing the negative but the U.S. is much more than its problems which in truth are common to all peoples and countries around the world.

    Forty years after Martin Luther King's speech where he said he has been to the mountain top and seen the promised land, a black man was elected President of the U.S. This is the potential of this country. It must hold to that potential as it strives to make right its wrongs.

  • HBH

    Please read this

    It was presciently published just before the riots.


  • HBH
  • Yondaime
    What the rioters in the street are doing is wrong, but at the same time people are frustrated that black lives do not matter in the eyes of law enforcement.
  • Simon

    I don't think the fundamental issue is racism. Sure, some people will be racist - it will never be 100% totally eradicated. There are still whackos who think gassing jews was a good idea.

    The problem is GUNS

    If you want to live in a society where anyone and everyone can have a gun AND you want some degree of law and order then you need to be prepared for people being shot when they shouldn't be. It's a very simple equation.

    Contrary to how it's often hyped and portrayed, the situation is not completely one-sided. The police do not cruise round shooting unarmed black kids with impunity as some would like to present things. There are police injured and killed by criminals just as there are criminals injured and killed by police. Sometimes a mistake will be made on either side but to imagine a system that relies on people combined with guns can ever be 100% perfect and error or incident free is naive in the extreme.

    The danger I see is that people are reacting to one thing and want to throw the baby out with the bath water. Sure have police not allowed to chase people or challenge them. You know what happens then? Crime riddled areas where the innocent people suffer rather than the criminals. Like this fuss over some gun dealer who get's shot and killed by mistake - ridiculous, it should be "whoops, our bad" ... and that's it.

    Of course we want to get rid of bad actors. But riots don't help that. They help reinforce the idea of strict treatment of criminal people. You already see people complaining that the police haven't done enough (when the blame lies with the politicians who tell them what to do).

    The other big factor in all this if you want to make it about black communities is that the "war on drugs" has caused a lot of the issues. So many absentee black men in prison because of low-level drug offences - only offences because of antiquated and puritanical attitudes to drugs like pot. Fewer men = fewer role models = fewer competition for good men = fewer engaged fathers = lots of badly behaved kids and a poor culture.

    The same attitudes that objected to alcohol, caffeine and other things in the past now object to pot. Yet no one stops to think what happened when alcohol was criminalized during prohibition - it made people criminals and it made certain criminals very powerful and a big problem. Better to tax it instead.

    It's easy to blame the police for everything but that is like blaming nurses for cuts in healthcare spending. The politicians like to join in the blame game because it distracts from their culpability in the problem. Yes, charge the odd nurse who stabs a patient intentionally but don't threaten jail for inevitable accidents that may happen because pretty soon the only people who would want to nurse are those who have nothing else to do.

    Grey's death seems to be a tragic accident and a combination of small events that combined to kill him - the perfect storm.

    Maybe he slipped and fell while running from the police or landed awkwardly while tackled. Maybe someone then pressed at just the wrong spot while cuffing him. Maybe he wasn't belted properly in the van. Maybe the driver stopped too suddenly.

    Now, who "killed" him? A mob of morons wants 6 officers to what, go to jail? You could see from the video that they were not out of control.

    And the whole "I can't breathe" or "ow, you're hurtiing me" ... do people honestly believe that they don't here that every time? So when people make false claims aren't they partly to blame as well? Or do people believe that people hold their hands up and say "ok. you got me, fair cop". Only in movies ...

    Imagine the mayors idea of having a doctor attend whenever anyone arrested claims they need one? Pretty soon the only way you'll get to see an overworked doctor is to get yourself arrested. A stupid idea that won't work, hasn't been thoroughly thought through (the implications) and is a knee jerk reaction to satisfy the mob.

    Here's a better thing to tell people: Don't commit crime, don't run from or attack the police. Get a job. Be respectful. Live long and prosper.

  • Village Idiot
    Village Idiot


    Rise of the New Black Radicals:

    “In my city every day, police is pulling somebody over, harassing them, extorting them,” he said. “Because that’s what it is—it’s legal extortion. When a government is making 30 to 40 percent of their yearly budget off of tickets, fines and imprisonment, it’s extortion. It’s the same thing the mob did in the ’20s. So we fight. We can’t go back to normal lives. We get followed, harassed, death threats, phones tapped, social media watched, they hack into our emails, hack into our social media account, we all got FBI files. They know we here right now. So I mean it’s not a game, but it’s either continue to deal with not being able to just live like a regular person, and dream, and have an opportunity, or get up and do something about it. And we decided to do something.”


    “Just envision a debtor’s prison being run by a collusion between city officials, police and court judges, who treated our community like an ATM machine,” Tyler said. “Because that’s all they did. Ferguson is in St. Louis County. It’s 21,000 people living in 8,100 households. So it’s a small town. Sixty-seven percent of the residents are African-American. Twenty-two percent live below poverty level. A total of $2.6 million [were paid in fines to city officials, the courts and the police] in 2013. The Ferguson Municipal Court disposed of 24,532 warrants and 12,018 cases. That’s about three warrants per household. One and a half cases for each household. You don’t get $321 in fines and fees and three warrants per household from an average crime rate. You get numbers like this from racist bullshit, arrests from jaywalking, and constant low-level harassment involving traffic stops, court appearances, high fines and the threat of jail for failure to pay.”


    “It’s been legal to kill a black man in this country. Just since Mike Brown, 11 more people has been killed by police in St. Louis alone, one being a woman who was raped then hung in jail. But none of the other murders got national coverage. It was just two standoffs with police yesterday. So I mean, we don’t know what that’s going to look like. We know we’re dedicated. We’re going to continue to fight. It’s going to take full-fledged revolution to make a change. The worst of the worst would be civil war. That’s just where my mind is.”

  • Simon
    What the rioters in the street are doing is wrong, but at the same time people are frustrated that black lives do not matter in the eyes of law enforcement.

    That is a jingoistic statement. Like "hands up - don't shoot" there is no evidence for it.

    It could easily be argued that black lives matter even less in the eyes of black people going off the crime rates concerned (demographics of victims). So who is really "praying on the black community"?

    It’s been legal to kill a black man in this country

    That is why pieces like this fail to resonate with the majority who become disengaged and unwilling to listen to what may be valid complaints. Everyone knows that is a ridiculous and untrue statement that is pure hyperbole.

    Change happens through shifts in attitudes. Every time there is a bogus claim where someone doing something wrong is tried to be passed of as a victim then it undermines the support and sympathy that people would give for genuine miscarriages of justice.

    Again, if a local community is unhappy with the way their local community is being run then why wouldn't they elect someone to run it how they would like? That has been done - people have run on the ticket of abolishing their municipality when they exist just to act as tax collectors to pay for themselves.

    Inciting marches is great business for some people but it is just a bunch of people getting fleeced again by those manipulating them for their own gains.

    Getting the vote was THE most important achievement and now too many don't use it. Why not?

    And if you imagine this is an issue that affects black communities only think again, soon your president will be whoever the billionaires have decided it will be.

    There is a fight that needs fighting but I think people are being manipulated into fighting the wrong one. "Fight amongst yourselves" would be so convenient for a small few.

  • Village Idiot
    Village Idiot


    It’s been legal to kill a black man in this country

    "That is why pieces like this fail to resonate with the majority who become disengaged and unwilling to listen to what may be valid complaints. Everyone knows that is a ridiculous and untrue statement that is pure hyperbole."

    It's been legal for police to kill, paralyze or brain damage almost anyone black or white.

    "Getting the vote was THE most important achievement and now too many don't use it. Why not?"

    They're demoralized. They turned up in large numbers and voted for Obama. Now what do they have to show for it?

  • Finkelstein

    I think what has fueled the rioting is the fact that the police or government officials haven't released information of the medical investigation to the actual cause of Gray's death and this has left the public to speculate that there was over abuse of force during his apprehension to the police detachment.

    Its really hard to believe that a simple ruff ride in the back of a paddy wagon would cause enough spinal cord trauma to incite a person's death. ??

  • adjusted knowledge
    adjusted knowledge

    Sorry Simon. But I really don't think you understand the social issues in America. I don't see how guns is the root cause for the riots going on or the issues between the Black community and the police. You didn't even make an attempt to justify that statement.

    I'm for strict gun laws, but I know that will have no impact on crime in America. Guns are in the 100's of millions in this country.You literally would have to ban guns and gather them all. There are 89 guns for every 100 American. This will never happen since it is now part of our Constitution with the 2nd Amendment. It would have to be appeal, and will not happen any time soon. The best is with strict gun laws, and that as I stated has no impact in America. According to the 2011 FBI Uniform Crime report, Californian with the strictest gun laws in America based on the Brady scoring system , had the highest amount of gun murders in 2011.

    Though the rest of your argument/comments I see validity in. I think you are way off on racism not being a fundamental issue, and really don't think you have an understand of the dynamics of it pertaining to America. To just touch on you Marijuana/Drug comment. If needed I can provide you source, but Whites use Pot just as much if not more than Blacks in America. However, look at the arrest report below. Can a correlation be made between race and arrests? Racism, poverty, guns, drugs, education, ect... are all valid issues to this problem.

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