Do you know the passage?

by FieryIce 7 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • FieryIce
    FieryIce

    An interesting question, the saints, the Holy Ones, if they are aware of their calling and choose to not follow for what ever reason, life or family pressures, what are the reprecussion for that called one?

    I was sure I had read a passage that stated the called one that turned away would loose the gifts yet still have their name remain in the book and I thought I read another passage stating the called one that turned away, then turned back again was not allowed and would have their name removed from the book.

    The closest I have come to finding these passages is Heb. 6:6 and there is John 15:6 but both passages are not quite what I was looking for. This will puzzle me until I find it.

  • Pubsinger
    Pubsinger

    This problem only exists within JW interpretation.

    As their is only ONE baptism and therefore only one hope this whole scenario falls apart.

    Because of our imperfections we may waver but we can always return to God with our destinies assured.

  • dungbeetle
    dungbeetle

    WT 3/1/76

    Questions from Readers

    Can an anointed Christian who is disfellowshiped later be reinstated and still have the heavenly hope?

    Yes, that is possible. Of course, in each case Jehovah God is the one to determine whether he will extend forgiveness.

    The fact that this is possible is borne out by what we read in the apostle Paul's letters to the Corinthian congregation. He wrote to Christians who had been anointed by holy spirit and given the hope of heavenly life. Paul addressed them as "you who have been sanctified in union with Christ Jesus, called to be holy ones."-1 Cor. 1:2; 15:49.

    One of these anointed Christians began to practice fornication. When he evidently did not repent and stop his immorality, Paul directed the congregation to disfellowship him. (1 Cor. 5:1-5, 9-13) However, it seems that this disfellowshiped person thereafter did sincerely repent. He is understood to be the person whom Paul was referring to in his second letter when he advised the Corinthians to forgive and accept back the former sinner.-2 Cor. 2:6-11; 7:8-13.

    When that man was reinstated into the congregation, what was his hope? Had he lost the heavenly calling, and had his hope now been changed to everlasting life on earth? No, for the earthly hope is not, as it were, a second-chance prospect. Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham and multitudes of other persons of outstanding faith had the hope of eternal life on earth, but this was not because they failed to measure up to the heavenly calling. They simply did not live in the time when the heavenly calling was in process according to Jehovah's will. (Heb. 10:19, 20) Comparable faith and integrity are required of all who will gain everlasting life, whether in heaven or on a paradise earth. A Christian who is anointed with holy spirit and made a joint heir with Christ must prove faithful to that calling if he is to receive eternal life at all.-Rev. 2:10, 11; Phil. 3:8-14; Rom. 8:14-17.

    This, though, does not mean that while they are on earth anointed Christians never sin. In the flesh, they are still imperfect and consequently they sin, as do all humans, and may even commit gross sin. The Christian disciple and Bible writer James, certainly an anointed Christian, wrote: "For we all stumble many times. If anyone does not stumble in word, this one is a perfect man." (Jas. 3:2; 2:5) It appears that such unintentional sin resulting from imperfection is what the apostle John meant by "sin that does not incur death." (1 John 5:16) God can forgive such sins. John said: "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous so as to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."-1 John 1:9.

    But repentance is necessary. If an anointed Christian today practiced gross sin and did not manifest repentance, the congregation, out of obedience to God's counsel, would have to disfellowship him. If he subsequently repented, though, he could be forgiven and reinstated, as was the man in Corinth.

    God does not, however, forgive all sin. According to what Jesus said in Mark 3:28, 29, those who willfully and knowingly blaspheme God's spirit can never be forgiven. And Paul wrote: "If we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment." (Heb. 10:26, 27) Such unforgivable sin is evidently what John referred to as "sin that does incur death."-1 John 5:16.

    If an anointed Christian sinned against the spirit, practicing willful sin without repentance and 'impaling the Son of God afresh,' God would completely and forever reject him. (Heb. 6:4-6) Not being repentant, he would not be reinstated. Jehovah would have to select and anoint another Christian as a replacement so that the full number of 144,000 would be kept complete. It might be compared to heaven's choice of Matthias to replace unfaithful Judas Iscariot so that there would be twelve faithful apostles of Jesus on which to build the Christian congregation.-Acts 1:23-26; Eph. 2:20.

    Is this to say that if an anointed Christian is disfellowshiped, Jehovah then and there selects a replacement? No human can say that, for we cannot know if the disfellowshiped individual has committed the unforgivable sin. Jehovah knows, and so the matter can be left in his hands. Just how and when he chooses to select a replacement is for him to decide. He did not give a detailed discussion of the matter in the Bible. So rather than speculate on what He will do or try to guess whether a disfellowshiped person is beyond the possibility of repentance, we can leave the matter up to Jehovah, the righteous Judge.-Heb. 12:23.

    If a congregation has had to disfellowship a person but he later repents and is reinstated, we can rejoice over Jehovah's mercy and forgiveness. (Luke 15:7) That is so whether the person professed the heavenly hope and continues to do so or had and continues to have hope of everlasting life on earth. All of us should take to heart the lessons learned from this-our own need to fight constantly against imperfection and sin, the importance of seeking forgiveness when we do sin and the necessity of enduring to the end so as to be saved.-Matt. 10:22.
    ______________________________________________________________________

    Comments: You'll notice that the scriptural example they use of 'disfellowshipping' and 'shunning' bears absolutely no resemblance to todays 'disfellowshipping' and 'shunning' procedures as practiced by the Watchtower and Jehovah's Witneses.

    And as has been pointed out, with independant research, the claims of the 2-class system of the Watchtower can find no support. Only by going TO THEIR LITERATURE can you find anything like this. Those same scriptural reasoning can be apllied to conclude that EVEYONE that died before Jesus did, if resurrected, will live on earth; EVEYONE that died after Jesus did, if resurrected, will live in heaven.

    The Watchtower needs to follow it's own advice: "Jehovah knows, and so the matter can be left in his hands."

    In 1975 a crack team of publishers was sentenced to death by a judicial commiteee. They promptly escaped from the cult and now live life on the run. If you have a problem ... and if you can find them ... maybe you can contact the A--postate Team"

  • Justin
    Justin

    As others have commented, this is a problem created by the WT by having two classes to begin with - especially having the two classes existing side by side at the same time in history. So we can't really refer to scripture texts to solve problems which are derived from this misunderstanding.

    If you think you are one of the "holy ones," and you fulfill the normal requirements for a JW, the only thing lacking would be your possibly not wanting to declare yourself (by partaking at the Memorial), as you realize that, in one way or another, you might be forced out of the organization. Are those consequences acceptable to you? If not, you might be better off just keeping your hope to yourself. It is true, according the WT's own teachings, someone with this hope should partake - but then they turn right around and make it tough for people who they are suspicious of. They have created the imperfect situation in which you may find yourself.

    If the things you read in these posts do not convince you to leave the organization for other reasons, then you should take care of yourself and let Jehovah straighten matters out in the end. God knows those who belong to him.

    Justin

  • JeffT
    JeffT

    Here's one I heard at church that I'd love to throw at JW:

    Faithful Jews from before Jesus (Abraham, Issac et al)went to heaven when they died. How did they get there, since they preceded Jesus in death? Some way Christians do, faith in the blood of Jesus. For them it was faith in a future event, for us it is faith in a past event. Same faith, same blood.

    I doubt a dub can look that one up in his little book and refute it.

  • TheOldHippie
    TheOldHippie

    Maybe I am a bit slow, but has someone here stated that the Jehovah's Witnesses believe that if an anointed is disfellowedshipped, he upon his return no longer can be an anointed, but can only have an eartly hope? If so, then that person is not correct. An anointed upon returning still is an anointed, if he thinks so. No other persons is in the position of passing any judgment upon his belief. As some others here have stated, everlasting eartly life is no second division or league. Either one is saved, or one is not. It is not so, that if you are not saved as an anointed, then you can be saved as a person with an eartly hope.

  • FieryIce
    FieryIce

    A very nice man yesterday mentioned Mat. 12:31, this explains why a saint would be denied and taken out of the book of life....it is not the wording I was looking for but it explains the reason why.

    Now what would be a blasphemy against the Holy Spirit? Would that be denying the HS or turning away and accepting something evil in it's place?

    dungbeetle, some very good information there, but do I see implied there that only JW's will be anointed? Isn't that a judgement in itself? What about all those anointed that have not soiled themselves?

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    JeffT:
    Matt.8:11 and Heb.11:16 are interesting passages, to support that reasoning. I'm guessing that most dubs haven't come across that one.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit