OK, let's think about the Jesus and Michael thing. And a question.

by Chariklo 7 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Chariklo
    Chariklo

    This post was prompted by musing after responding to a thread by Metatron. Hmmm. Metatron. Interesting. Back to him later.

    One of the Watchtower teachings that really struck me right from the start as being without foundation is the whole concept of Jesus and Michael being one and the same being.

    Bear with me here. For those who don't believe anyway in Jesus or Michael or angels or archangel(s) please let's just for the minute view this as a conundrum, an interesting exercise in origins of beliefs/concepts/myths/legends/stories. OK?

    Jehovah's Witnesses believe there is only one archangel and not only believe he is Michael but add in the (to other people) totally wacky concept that Michael=Jesus. They seem to be on their own, though I think some other group, is it Seventh Day Adventists? go along with it. They say they get it from their interpretation of the Bible, oops, sorry, what the Bible really teaches.

    Most people know and believe in four archangels. Michael, Gabriel, Raphael and (not so well known) Uriel. The WT Bible is limited to the books of the Bible accepted mainly by Protestants. Most Protestants know Gabriel as an archangel too, and he is usually known as the Archangel Gabriel. They're usually aware of Raphael, at least in my experience, but are not quite sure where or how he fits in, except that they know him as helping with healing. They know Gabriel as God's announcer, and Michael as the warrior angel who defeated Satan. They're both in the Bible, though the Bible doesn't say Gabriel is an archangel.

    Catholics have extra material in their Bible, and so know Raphael as the angel in the Book of Tobit. Like the Orthodox Church, they accept those books which such Protestants as the Anglican and Episcopal Churches know as the Apocrypha.

    However, the Jews had many more ancient books, which largely formed the Jewish canon. They include the book of Enoch, interestingly accepted by the Ethiopian Christian church, one of the very earliest churches. Uriel is generally known as the Light of God. Wikipedia reminds me that in Paradise Lost Milton describes him as the "sharpest sighted spirit in all of Heaven."

    Interestingly again, to me, at any rate, these four archangels are generally known as representing and indeed guarding the four cardinal points, and it's especially interesting to know that they were also seen in ancient times as representing the four brightest stars in the heavens, Aldebaron, Regulus, Antares and Formalhaut.

    So these four archangels are variously mentioned in the Bible, the fuller Catholic and Orthodox Bible, and further ancient Jewish writings, as well as in other areas of the ancient world including Persia.

    But Metatron? I started with him.

    Because I've always been interested in ancient history, I had heard of Metatron and somehow knew of him as the chief angel, but how could that be? Now I've discovered that he was indeed known as such to the Jews in the Zohar and elsewhere.

    http://www.thechristianrabbi.org/whoismetatron.htm

    Here is my important question, or it seems so to me anyway.

    The Bible tells us repeatedly of Jesus' learning and knowledge of the Jewish texts, from childhood. He will have known of all these angels including Metatron. Although Jesus "updated" some of the ancient teachings, as with his two great commandments in Matthew 22: 35-40, he does not anywhere contradict the ancient Jewish learning. Instead, he builds on it over and over again, supporting his teachings with what has been known for hundreds and hundreds of years.

    Surely, Jesus himself must have known and accepted the existence of these other angels, including Metatron?

    Am I alone in being intrigued by all this?

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    I find this sort of stuff fascinating, but we have a huge problem. The only words of Jesus that we have are from very doubtful sources, the various gospels, canonical and extra-canonical, and references in other writings.

    Nobody, when this great teacher was expounding his beliefs thought to write down verbatim. The Gospels, all of them non-canonical as well, were all written decades after he died, some with an agenda that precludes trusting them to any great degree.

    As to the Michael being Jesus thing, when I was an active JW I didn't find their reasoning convincing on this, my default position now is, assume it is wrong if the WT teaches it, and you won't be wrong yourself very often.

    Michael in Daniel for example, does not sound as though he has any more rank than the other Angels mentioned, which is strange if he were God's first-born son.

  • glenster
  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    Jewish angelology and demonology was not too ancient; its growth occurred in consort with the exilic and post-exilic shift from henotheism to monotheism (beginning with Deutero-Isaiah, cf. the Jewish tradition that the names of the angels were acquired during the Babylonian exile), with angels and demons taking the place of earlier recognized deities. A similar process took place in Islam (with older Arabian deities being converted into jinn). And so the older henotheistic system of national tutelary deities (mentioned in such places as Judges 11:24 and Deuteronomy 32:8-9) can still be seen behind the second century BC conception of guardian angels as the "princes" of the nations (such as the "prince of Greece" or Michael as the "prince" representing Israel) in the Hebrew apocalypse of Daniel (ch. 8-12). The later Jewish tradition that there were seventy such angels harkens back to the idea that there are seventy nations in the world (found in the Table of the Nations in Genesis 10), and the even older Canaanite belief that the creator god El and his wife Asherah (= the consort of Yahweh in pre-exilic Yahwism) had seventy sons (the sons of El, equivelant to the "sons of God" in the OT, which in the LXX became aggeloi).

    It is noteworthy that named angels only appear in Jewish literature of the Hellenistic period (e.g. Raphael in Tobit, the seven archangels listed in the Book of Watchers in 1 Enoch, Michael in the Hebrew portions of Daniel, etc.), so it is possible that the practice of giving personal names to the highest rank of angel started even later than Jewish tradition admits. Also we know from Acts 23:8 that the Sadducees, unlike the Pharisees and Essenes, did not believe in either angels or the resurrection (the latter is also a post-exilic notion), and the books that specifically indulge in angelic speculation largely belong to the Essene branch of early Judaism (itself a development of older Enochic Judaism). Since Christianity was itself probably an outgrowth of first century AD Essenism, the early church inherited much of these angelological traditions. This is most evident in the epistle of Jude (an exemplar of early Palestinian Christianity), which is heavily steeped in Enochic literature and which makes direct reference to the story of "the archangel Michael" in the Assumption of Moses. Jesus in the synoptic gospels also seems to be quite familiar with Enochic angelological and demonological concepts, particularly his references to the Son of Man (from the Book of Parables) and the idea that the demons are the wandering spirits of the Nephilim drowned in the Flood (who lost their original bodies when they died and thus continually search for new bodies to inhabit, cf. the story of the herd of swine inhabited by a legion of demons who then proceed to drown themselves).

    There are seven archangels listed in the Book of Watchers: Uriel, Raphael, Reuel, Michael, Sariel, Gabriel, and Remiel (1 Enoch 20:1-7). The same book also lists the names of various fallen angels (which were NOT demons, the demons were the spirits of the dead Nephilim), such as Asael and Shemihazah. The names often relate to the function of the angel: Raphael is an angel of healing (= Hebrew rapha' "to heal"), Uriel is an angel of light (= Hebrew 'ur "flame"), Kokabel is an angel of the stars (= Hebrew kokab "star"), etc. There are also a fluidity in names and identities, e.g. Asael was later confused with the demon Azazel, Sariel was largely replaced by Uriel, Samael and Belial became alternative names for the primary angelic antagonist (= Satan), etc. Michael appears most often in the role of a psychopomp (as in the Life of Adam of Eve, the Testament of Abraham, the Assumption of Moses, etc.), which is the reason why he is mentioned in the epistle of Jude, as he was responsible in the Assumption of Moses for the buriel of Moses' body and for escorting Moses' soul to heaven. And Michael also appears as a psychopomp in stories about the burial and resurection of Jesus; he is named as one of the angels who escorted Jesus out of his tomb in Ascension of Isaiah 3:16-17. The other major function of Michael in early Judaism was as the commander of the heavenly army, and so he is sometimes given the title arkhistratègos "chief captain" in parabiblical literature. This is the role he has in the Chaoskampf myth in ch. 12 of Revelation, where again he is distinguished from Jesus (the imperiled baby messiah, compare Jesus in the nativity story of Matthew, the Illuminator in the 13Kingdoms section of the Apocalypse of Adam, and the Apollo and Horus birth myths).

    Metatron is an outgrowth of a particular stream of Enochic Judaism that glorified Enoch to angelic status, so there was probably no exact parallel to this angel in the early first century AD. The development could be roughly sketched as follows: (1) The third century BC Book of Giants devises a throne vision narrative of God's judgment of the earth, involving a single figure -- God. (2) The second century BC Aramaic apocalypse of Daniel revises this throne vision by envisioning two distinct figures: God (referred to as the "Ancient of Days") and his eschatological agent, the "one like a son of man". The "one like a son of man" in the vision represents collectively "the holy people of the Most High" (7:26-27). (3) The Hebrew apocalypse later added to the Aramaic book (written in c. 164 BC) implied that the "one like a son of man" was actually an angelic figure, possibly Michael (cf. Daniel 8:15, 9:21, 10:5, 13, 21, 12:1, 5-7). (4) The early first century AD Book of Parables updated the throne vision to now pertain to two figures, the "Lord of Spirits" (= God) and the "Son of Man", his agent on the Day of Judgment, who is also the "messiah" (1 Enoch 46:1, 48:10, 52:4 52:4). This concept was then utilized by Jesus in the synoptic gospels (late first century AD), which explicitly identified the Son of Man with Jesus. Revelation (late first century AD) also construes two enthroned figures in heaven on the "Throne", the Lord God and the Lamb of God. The Enochic Son of Man also appears later as the Man from the Sea in 4 Ezra (written in c. AD 100) and has a parallel in the "Two Powers in Heaven" controversy in second century AD Judaism (which itself contributed to the rise of modalism in Christianity). The concept of the Logos by Philo of Alexandria (early first century AD) is another, more Platonic, elaboration of the "Two Powers" idea. (5) A scribal addition to the ending of the Book of Parables identified the Son of Man with Enoch (70:13-17). This is contrary to the original ending of the Book of Parables in v. 1-2, in which Enoch's "translation" involved him being taken into the Son of Man's presence. The identification of Enoch with the Son of Man drew on older independent notions about Enoch being the heavenly scribe who watches the deeds of humankind from heaven and writes them down into the "books", which are then opened on the Day of Judgment (the theme of books being opened runs through the whole throne vision tradition, from the Book of Giants to Daniel to the Book of Parables to Revelation). (6) The second century AD apocalypse of 2 Enoch develops this concept of Enoch as a heavenly being further. When Enoch was translated, he was extracted from his "earthly clothing" and "became like one of his glorious ones and there was no observable difference" (22:8-10), and then "the Lord received him in the highest heaven and made him stand in front of his face for eternity" (67:2). Enoch is also called the "governor of the earth" and "measurer" (prometaya in Slavonic text; cf. the Latin loanword praemetitor in the Armenian version of Philo of Alexandria's Quaestiones in Genesim, where it occurs as one of the titles of the Logos), as he is the measurer of the heavenly cycles and the extent of the earth (43:1-2), as well as the scribe whose "written record" is the measure by which one's deeds will be weighed on Judgment Day, "each one will recognize his measure, and according to measure, each shall receive his reward" (44:5). That Enoch is given one of the titles of the Logos is suggestive that conflation between Logos/Memra and Enoch traditions, with the Logos/Memra being the personified voice of God. The Greek and Latin terms for "measurer" (metrètès/*prometrètès in Greek and metator/*praemetator in Latin) were the likely sources of the name Metatron. (7) Then in the fourth century AD the Babylonian Talmud related a story about R Elisha b Abuyah who ascended to heaven to Paradise in the early second century AD and saw "Metatron" sitting down enthroned, which led to Elisha's heretical exclamation "There are two powers in heaven!" (Hagigah 15a), thereby linking directly the figure of Metatron with the Two Powers in Heaven controversy of the second century AD. Yebamot 16b also claims that the duties of "Prince of the World" was transferred from Michael to Metatron, which shows how popular Metatron was becoming in Judaism. Just after this time Metatron was also mentioned in Mandaean and non-Mandaean incantation bowls as "the Great Prince of God's Throne", "the Great Prince of the Entire World" and "Metatron who Serves Before the Curtain". (8) The figure of Metatron went under further development in later rabbinical and hekhalot literature. In 3 Enoch (sixth century AD), Enoch was glorified as "Metatron, the Prince of the Divine Presence" and the "lesser YHWH", and the Targum Pseudo-Jonathan (ninth century AD) also affirmed the identity of Enoch and Metatron (T Ps-J, Genesis 5:24). These streams of thought were continued in the works of the medieval Haside Ashkenaz (particularly Eleazar b Judah in the thirteenth century AD) and the Spanish Qabbalah in the fourteenth century AD, both far removed from the thought of the Second Temple period.

  • designs
    designs

    The Dead Sea Scroll 11Q13 gave the Society some strong ground for 'Divine Beings' who are not God being endowed with God's perogatives. Also remember a group of Protestant theologians have held that Michael is a designation for Jesus- John Calvin and Matthew Henry, August Strong etc..

  • Chariklo
    Chariklo

    My goodness, what a wealth of information!

    Thanks very much, everyone, and especially Leolaia and Glenster, designs too for 11Q13.

    Leolaia especially, bot everyone else too, am I right in assuming that Jesus would know all this?

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Ah, that raises the God and consciousness question. I don't understand why Jehover could not create Jesus fresh. Why did the spirit energy have to leave Michael. It as though there was only so much battery power in God to create. Yet Jesus said God could raise the very stones.......

    I prefer a powerful Jesus. The Witness view has always been confusing to me. I could not keep the general view of Jesus from my mind. Film and TV Jesus was probably a bigger influence on me than the Bible. As an adult, I am addicted to Jesus films.

  • FaithfulBrother
    FaithfulBrother

    Ah, that raises the God and consciousness question. I don't understand why Jehover could not create Jesus fresh. Why did the spirit energy have to leave Michael. It as though there was only so much battery power in God to create. Yet Jesus said God could raise the very stones.......

    Because apparently, according to Revelation 5, no one--neither human nor spirit--could be born into the flesh and refrain from committing a sin, except for the firstborn of all creation.

    Then I saw in the right hand of him who sat on the throne (A) a scroll with writing on both sides (B) and sealed (C) with seven seals. 2 And I saw a mighty angel (D) proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?” 3 But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. 4 I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. 5 Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion (E) of the tribe of Judah, (F) the Root of David, (G) has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”

    6 Then I saw a Lamb, (H) looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures (I) and the elders. (J) The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, (K) which are the seven spirits [a] (L) of God sent out into all the earth. 7 He went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. (M) 8 And when he had taken it, the four living creatures (N) and the twenty-four elders (O) fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp (P) and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers (Q) of God’s people. 9 And they sang a new song, saying: (R)

    “You are worthy (S) to take the scroll
    and to open its seals,
    because you were slain,
    and with your blood (T) you purchased (U) for God
    persons from every tribe and language and people and nation. (V)
    10 You have made them to be a kingdom and priests (W) to serve our God,
    and they will reign [b] on the earth.” (X)

    11 Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. (Y) They encircled the throne and the living creatures (Z) and the elders. (AA) 12 In a loud voice they were saying:

    “Worthy is the Lamb, (AB) who was slain, (AC)
    to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength
    and honor and glory and praise!” (AD)

    13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth (AE) and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:

    “To him who sits on the throne (AF) and to the Lamb (AG)
    be praise and honor and glory and power,
    for ever and ever!” (AH)

    14 The four living creatures (AI) said, “Amen,” (AJ) and the elders (AK) fell down and worshiped. (AL)

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