Stopped Dead Again.

by truthseeker1969 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • truthseeker1969

    As many of you are aware my brother who is an elder, shared with me another "shut this down moment" in a JC

    A brother who was to go before another body of Elders told them that since they had contacted his former congregation they had lost their Ecclesiastical Privelege and that information they had is now subject to the Data Protection Law including records etc. When he was told he could not take notes he told the Elders the same that they had to abide by the same non scriptural mandate.

    Apparently it was enough to shut the proceedings down until they called the "mother ship" for instructions.

    They were told not to proceed with anything at this time until they got back to the elders.

    My brother who hates JC totally said that more and more they are finding people quoting the law to them and the elders are backing off, not sure about the US where they can do anything they please but in the UK the DPA has really messed things up for the society

    Anyone else hear of anything like this? Do the UK Witnesses have an upper hand?

  • metatron

    Wow, dude! Tell us more!


  • Yan Bibiyan
    Yan Bibiyan

    Nice, truth.

    I can't say for sure in the United States, but I always wondered if a lawsuit is brought against the BOE, WT, etc after DF, can the process of Subpoena and Discovery be used to unearth the documents of the JC.

    Of course one has to be able to afford it in a first place, but it's just a thought...maybe BoTR or other poster with legal background/knowledge can speak for the US.

    Do tell us more about it though.

  • truthseeker1969

    really just know the basics but he said that they have so many protections in the Uk regarding there data on people. All I know is that the JC are not deemed illegal just that they have to be real careful what they say.

    He said that they are meeting resistance from the bethel in England (branch office) and have to be very careful what they say but he knows they break the law all the time by keeping records which is against the DPA without consent, trying to have publishers signs records cards more or less saying that they can do as they please with the information they have etc

    He said he has heard of a few cases that ended up with warnings to the society that they had breached the privacy of members but nothing came of them, and that the government is well aware of the society and how they oppose the act as it seriously restricts what they can do with information

    This was a re-instatement hearing of a brother from England who move to another part of the country and warned them that they violated his rights.

    Nothing has been done yet so I am wondering if they will go ahead and re-instate him anyway. He also asked where in the bible reinstatement hearings are even mentioned and they sat stone silent.

  • ziddina
    "...told them that since they had contacted his former congregation they had lost their Ecclesiastical Privelege and that information they had is now subject to the Data Protection Law including records etc..."

    I'm not sure about any "Data Protection" law here in the U.S., but speaking of the matter to other elders/the Watchtower Society definitely DOES rule out their claim of "confessor/penitent" privacy...

    And I suspect that a clever lawyer or just a bright, fading JW could use that to throw up enough legal objections to bring the JC to a screeching halt.

  • flipper

    TRUTHSEEKER- I know here in the state of California the WT society tried using this confidentiality crap in the Gilbert Simental child molester case several years ago. The courts and judge told the WT legal team that they forfeited the " clergy confidentiality " when they communicated Simentals judicial committee details to Bethel legal . So WTS had no leg to stand on and a bench order was issued to the elders handling Simental's JC case that they HAD to testify in court- they would NOT be allowed to refrain from testifying. It was court ordered for them to appear.

    So the more access to legal details JW's get or EX-JW's get, more power and control can be taken away from the WT society and given to the victims of their injustices. And that's always a good thing. Peace out, Mr. Flipper

  • Disillusioned Lost-Lamb
    Disillusioned Lost-Lamb

    Great info, thanks!

    I think anyone facing a JC should try to look into what the law says about the proceedings, privacy and records.

    You can argue all day about theology and doctrine, but pulling the law card will definitely bring your JC to an immediate standstill.

  • wha happened?
    wha happened?

    I believe someone has posted a letter their attorney penned about how DF'ing someone by public notification was equated to defimation of character, as the results of such an announcement could affect the person in their community standing, among their peers, and result in lost business as a result of others being directed to not be in contact with him

  • Crisis of Conscience
    Crisis of Conscience

    This is interesting truthseeker1969. Thanks for sharing.

  • Phizzy

    Sorry double post.

  • Phizzy

    Under the DP Act in the U.K, and similar legislation elsewhere, you can ask for disclosure of all the stuff they have on you. Several DF'd ones have done this, but never have any forms or correspondence concerning their DFing been disclosed by UKHQ or the local Congregation, and yet we all know this stuff exists, and is kept by the local congo. and the HQ in perpetuity, it is the kind of info you would want destroyed if it were you.

    They are non-complient in this, and of course are lying about the existence of such records. "Theocratic warfare" is apparently an excuse for disregard and contempt for the law.

    Maybe we on JWN could produce a down-loadable article on possible Legal strategies to stymie the JC or prevent a DFing etc

  • Chariklo

    What kind of info goes onto the record cards?

    When I became an unbaptised publisher 12 months ago, I was asked to sign a disclaimer which said the card was a property of the WT, I think, though I don't remember exactly. At that time I thought it was all wonderful, all exactly what God wanted for us.

    I was a wide eyed idiot!

    I'd like to know what gets written down, though. I assumed it would be publishing record etc, in fact, that was what I was told. And also, because I did ask, I was told that if, for instance, I went 6 months without getting anyone studying or with a poor publishing record, then the elders would be able to come and see me to give me any help and encouragement I needed.

    I did think that was a bit odd, but at that point took it at face value.

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