Hypothetical RE: Gay Marriage

by DarioKehl 8 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • DarioKehl
    DarioKehl

    The Setup:

    The Supreme Court rules in favor of gay marriage across the board, regardless of state constitutions in the next few weeks.

    A gay couple get happily married. Several months go by and one of them is contacted at the door by JWs. This individual is sincerely interested and becomes convinced that it's the truth. After sharing the information, the partner is also interested and they begin attending meetings together, thereby outing themselves as a gay (but genuinely interested & "earnestly seeking) couple to the congregation. What happens next?

    Would they be permitted to continue attending meetings together as unbaptized people? Would the elders encourage them to get divorced? Why or why not? And if so, how could they justify divorce when it's condemned in the Bible?

    I'm only asking because this is a very likely possibility at some point in the future and it will be a very interesting & potentially explosive case in terms of PR for JW dot org.

  • The Searcher
    The Searcher

    Any unmarried heterosexual couple living together would not be allowed to get baptized and be recognised as one of Jehovah's Witnesses until they'd either separated or gotten married.

    A homosexual couple married/living together would be treated similarly, except they would have to legally terminate any official union which they'd entered into, and since same-sex marriage would not be viewed as scripturally right, then such a divorce could not be viewed as wrong.

  • Hold Me-Thrill Me
    Hold Me-Thrill Me
    Gays and Lesbians should stay away from Jehovah's Witnesses. They are immature because they think the keeping of rules is equal to love. For most gays and lesbians the U.S. Presbyterian church would be a better church for them imo.
  • _Morpheus
    _Morpheus

    As searcher noted.

    anyone can attend meetings. To be reconized as a publisher they would have to terminated the marriage which wouldnt be a valid union in the desert gods eyes anyway and maintain selerate residances while ceasing a homosexual life style.

    As hold me noted, no ody should take up with jehovahs witnesses to begin with.

  • adjusted knowledge
    adjusted knowledge

    I would be curious if anyone has seen this scenario. There is no need for a hypothetical SCOTUS ruling for this scenario to occur. There are plenty of states that legalize marriage for this to happen.

    What is more interesting to me is the reaction of the congregation to have known homosexuals attending meetings. Could you imagine the reactions of these homophobes seeing two gay men walking in the Hall holding hands? In fact it would be actually interesting if GLAAD organized such events.

  • _Morpheus
    _Morpheus
    Yes it happened locally. It wasnt two men, it was two women. It went down as i described above. Neither stayed long ;)
  • DarioKehl
    DarioKehl

    Interesting. I figured as much.

    But what strikes me as a huge conflict is the way the bOrg puts so much emphasis on official state-issued licenses & certificates. For example:

    1) the brother who gives the JW wedding talk must sign the marriage certificate BEFORE the bride & groom consummate. At least in my area, that's a big deal. I know of one example when this was overlooked & the speaker had to leave his house that evening & meet them at the hotel so they'd not be guilty of pornea; as if to say the Holy Spirit magic wasn't in the document without his signature and therefore any sex acts would not have been covered scriptural ly because the state certificate wasn't complete yet.

    2) the fact that undocumented immigrants cannot hold privileges or title in the congregation because they're not here legally

    3) the fact that voter registration cards are frowned upon--even when a government requires them (unless you live in Mexico and the GB gives you a free pass)

    So, now my question is, if a gay married man takes an interest & wants to get baptized, he would have to get LEGALLY divorced (ie: a certified, state-issued divorce on a piece of paper) before he could join. Now, once he does this and becomes baptized, he now has a divorce on record. Arguably, it is unscriptural in the JW context if no adultery had occurred. So, would this divorce be used to prevent them from obtaining privileges or title?

    Will the elders manual have to be updated to include a clause that says scriptural divorce for HETERO couples is only when adultery occurs, but interested gay couples automatically qualify for scriptural divorce--no adultery required--because gay is a gross sin anyway so that's a free pass?

    Or, is it possible that a particularly homophobic elder body who just doesn't like gays--even "sheeplike" ones who abandon the practices & lifestyle--would use the divorce as a way to keep them in a perpetual state of suppression where they could never be an MS or pioneer?

    finally, if a legally gay married couple divorced to accommodate the JW baptism requirements and one of them decided to marry a sister later (many gays inside the bOrg do that, don't ask me why), could the elders put their foot down & say they can't remarry because no adultery had occurred and based on this technicality, their gay divorce was unscriptural?

    The org is really going to have to make some modifications in their official policy & soon! Either to say gay marriages with state-issued certificates simply do not count because "ew! gay...", or, that piece of paper is just as imbued with magical superpowers as any marriage certificate, voter ID or citizenship paperwork and therefore must in principle fall under the same guidelines for scriptural divorce as any other legally issued marriage certificate.

  • Village Idiot
    Village Idiot

    DarioKehl,

    "...could the elders put their foot down & say they can't remarry because no adultery had occurred and based on this technicality, their gay divorce was unscriptural?"

    "But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery." - Matthew 5:32 New International Version

    The phrase used in that scripture is translated from the word "porneias" (πορνείας) which is not limited to adultery but refers to any sexual 'immorality'.

  • JeffT
    JeffT

    We may all need to get some popcorn and watch this one over the next few years. I bet there will be a BOE letter out some time in the next couple of years addressing these issues. I would anticipate a bunch of mealy-mouthed nonsense trying to cover everything from all sides. It will be written by lawyers and written in a way that makes it clear to the elders that gay marriage isn't marriage so it doesn't make any difference what the government says. I'm guessing they will use this to make gay couples dissolve the relationship, they will be free to enter into a heterosexual marriage after that, maybe even have privileges; after all at that point they'll be a shinning example of how Jehovah fixes everything.

    If there's a legal blowup, like a lawsuit over something; it will all be the fault of the local elders.

    Edited to add: I don't know how a GLBTQ* person with the brains God gave gravel could sit five minutes in Kingdom Hall.

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