Seriously in need of opinions here

by DilemmaGF 17 Replies latest social relationships

  • DilemmaGF

    An inactive JW guy, still close and in contact with JW family and some JW friends, wanting to marry a worldy Christendom girl. He made their relationship known to everybody (family and friends). Excited to get married to the girl and to start a life proper.

    The JW thinking is still strong in him - doctrine, holidays, voting and stuffs; but indicated disagreement with some WTS policies, teaching about WTS being the only true religion, and did some research about WTS, even read a part of COC.

    What say you about this guy? What is in his mind?

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    If he still thinks that there is the slightest chance that the WT might be God's channel, something like the advent of kids and some bad news could trigger him back into the cult.

  • Broken Promises
    Broken Promises

    How long has he been out? It can take a while for the indoctrination to get out of his mind.

    However, until he is completely convinced the JWs are wrong, there's always a chance he'll go back. Taking any kids you guys might have, with him.

    I wouldn't marry him just yet. Tell him you want to give him the space to discover life outside the JWs more, before you get married. There's no need to rush things.

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep
    How long has he been out?

    Should anyone who still goes along with doctrine, holidays, voting and stuff be considered 'out'?. I wouldn't think so.

  • Witness My Fury
    Witness My Fury

    Copy and paste of my reply from CuriousUKs thread:

    The only type of JW I would date would be the specific brand of EX JW who has done real research into their previous religion and now has come to see it for what it really is - A MIND CONTROL CULT.
    Unless he is in that position and is able to repeatedly and honestly say the CULT word re the JWs, then there is very real risk that he will return to the religion at some point of crisis or stress because deep down if he still believes it is the "Truth" then it is only a matter time before he returns to it, or else compromises the relationship over doctrine.
  • Amelia Ashton
    Amelia Ashton

    Recognition of being mind controlled by a bunch of old men who think they are being directed by God but are not is vital for full recovery.

  • nugget

    If he is inactive and still leading a JW life ie no holidays etc then he is still a JW. He hasn't been Df'd because he is still living as a JW although not associating with the congregation. With Crisis of conscience it is a great eye opener and after reading it most people see that the religion is not just misguided but actually corrupt and it often helps people to break free. The fact he hasn't finished reading it may be a sign that he doesn't want to cut ties with the organisation and risk his family relationships.

    As an inactive he actually hasn't done anything confrontational and hasn't really had to make any choices about his belefs. Marrying outside the faith is strongly discouraged and his decision may bring him back onto the radar and the elders may force him to make a choice between his girlfriend and his faith. Bearing in mind his religious status affects his family relationships it may not end well.

    I would suggest that the two need to talk seriously about all the implications of marrying and the worst case scenarios for both. It is better to do this before things start to spiral out of control or before they enter marriage.

  • Chariklo


    DilemmaGF, I think you began two identical threads within about 3 hours of each other. I think you are the girlfriend in question, which I didn't realise when I replied in your thread on Dating JW', but this one under this title seems to have attracted much more than double the number of readers.

    In that thread I wrote

    "If he was a born in JW, and still believes all that stuff, then he might be "excited to get married and start a life proper", but the poor girl needs to RUN and RUN!


    I've looked back on some of your other posts and it's clear that this has been going on for a few months. I think the best thing you could do is read right through CuriousUK's thread here

    Be very, very careful, DilemmaGF. You've got alarm bells ringing, or you wouldn't be posting here. Listen to your own alarm bells and what everyone has said pretty well unanimously on CuriousUK's thread.

    JW's have a song in their rather trite Song Book for nearly every occasion. There's one that's entitled "Guard Your Heart". Please guard yours.

  • dgp

    I wonder if Dilemma Girl is using the JW jargon (worldly Christendom girl) because she is somehow convinced that the Watchtower is right.

    You're asking about what could be in the guy's mind. I am more interested in knowing what is in your mind.

    You know, Dilemma, I was in your shoes (sort of) once. I think I understand what you feel. I surmise you're at the point where you have realized the Watchtower is not good, but are not clear just how bad it is; and are also secretly hoping that the love of your life will eventually see it that way, too, since he has manifested disagreement here and there and has already made it known that he's involved with you. In my experience, the odds are against you. I think he will not be involved with you unless you give in to the Watchtower.

    In my opinion, a worldly will not join the Watchtower once s/he knows what it really is. I am afraid that all you would need would be a little pushing to join. The prospect of being with a person you truly love, a person who truly loves you, makes it look like joining is not really a problem. The brothers and sisters are all so nice and you have an open mind. Doe anybody really know what is the true religion? Maybe they are even right. They are actually right here and there...

    Then you will feel that this is a problem you can handle. Or it is one you can handle even if it's difficult. Or it is difficult, yes, and very much, but you're not a quitter and you love him and he's so great when he's not in Watchtower mood. And then you have kids who are so proper and look so great in their suits.

    Making the decision not to join is heartbreaking because you realize that you are creating the conditions that will probably keep the person away from you. Then they will exploit that and will tell you that, if only you embraced the Truth, well... That is blackmail and you should resist it.

    I wonder if you will want to send me a PM.

  • DilemmaGF

    Dear all, thanks for your feedbacks. Really appreciate them. Yes, I am a girlfriend in dilemma. I have been thinking about talking to him up front about this but just don't know how to start.

    I welcome more opinions and advices.

    Chariklo - yes, I have posted earlier and it didn't attract much feedback probably due to the title. Such a sweet guy and I believe all the feelings that he has for me is real but yep... the problem is...

    I would be much easier if he initiate the break up. Or should I keep on bugging him with the WTS-cult thingy until he (i) come to his senses and finally see the cult in the religion OR (ii) decides to go back to the religion because the worldly girl is really trying to influence me with the apostate thingy...

  • DilemmaGF

    dgp - firstly I used the term JW because I don't what else to call/refer to them. I just don't think that the JWs are bad people but they are the victims of the cult. Of course, some are really "bad" because maybe the teaching and practices of the WTS suits them, and they like it (being jugdemental, self-righteous etc) because that's human nature.

    I have done a lot of research about the religion, the history and even how their twisted translation in their Bible. BAD! BAD! BAD! I am also aware of their tactics eg love bombing, etc..

    I have my stand - never to join, even to sit in the KH for a few hours will be a waste of my time I guess. You are right to certain extend about how I feel about him. And yes, I still harbour some hopes that he will come to his senses and be out of the cult

  • DilemmaGF

    dgp - oh.. I misunderstood your statement about the jargon. Well, that's what they call the mainstream Christians isn't it? Whatever they call us, doesn't change a bit who we are so I just don't think it is wrong to use their jargon specifically in this matter. JW = cult; Christendom are not!

  • Witness 007
    Witness 007

    Just be happy....don't complicate.

  • dgp


    I would be much easier if he initiate the break up. Or should I keep on bugging him with the WTS-cult thingy until he (i) come to his senses and finally see the cult in the religion OR (ii) decides to go back to the religion because the worldly girl is really trying to influence me with the apostate thingy...

    It is easier, but not by much. If the witness breaks up with you, you feel that "Well, HE ended it, not me; I did all I could". But it does not feel great to be rejected because you're one of the Evil Ones, knowing, as you know, that they are just like everybody else, generally speaking. I think this is not the right thing to do, for you or for him.

    Poster JGNAT summarized the right attitude in a few words, which I copied on that other thread ( and am posting here again, for your sake:

    I would not subsume my identity for any man.

    (Change that to "for any person")

    The congregation now grits its' teeth and puts on its best hospitality smile to "prove" to me that theirs is the superior life.

    I'm not fooled.

  • jamiebowers

    This thread was also started under Private Discussions, and here was my answer:

    As soon as he experiences a life changing event, such as having kids, he'll run back to the cult and try to drag wife and children with him. No one should ever marry a jw without that jw going through intensive therapy and a prenup about how potential children will be raised.

  • zeb

    Whats their ages?

  • CuriousUK

    Just to intrude on your thread - I can only re-iterate that reading mine might be really useful. The advice and stories I have received have been amazingly helpful and gave me a lot to think about.

    As someone in a vaguely similar situation, I can completely empathise how difficult it is to find the truth in amongst the words, and I hope you can find your way

  • Tomapostate

    DilemmaGF, if you like him and he likes you then no advise from anyone will stop you going with him- nor should it!

    I am puzzled why you ask for it. I don't think you have any doubts about your feelings for him, perhaps making sure you hear all critisisms before making your choice so it can at least be an informed one rather than just a blind flurry of romance.

    Perhaps you are not sure you agree with his stance on holidays and foresee it turning into a major divison later in the relationship? I'm asking rather than hypothesising. If this is so then your view on these things is worth making clear. Any dishonesty in the relationship can turn in to a major problem later if not sorted sooner.

    My advise- be clear but gentle what your stance is. You don't agree with the JW's and won't join them, so if he is harbouring any thoughts about going back to them once your are married then you are probably not suited. On the other hand, if he is prepaired to embrace your view on things then you may be perfectly suited.

    I think I see your dilema.

    The simple truth is you have your doubts. Until they are sated you are both not ready for a commited relationship. My advise.

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