Vin Toole at work: How much of JWs donations are spent on legal challenges?

by MrMonroe 9 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • MrMonroe
    MrMonroe

    This talk of Vin Toole's involvement in the Steven Unthank case in Victoria reminded me of a legal case back in 1999 that went all the way to the High Court of Australia.

    In February 1998 a 20-year-old sister named Sherin Qumsieh gave birth in a Melbourne hospital. Complications developed, she required an emergency hysterectomy and began suffering severe blood loss. She had signed a blood card, but the hospital warned her husband, Nidal, that there was a high likelihood she'd die if she didn't have a transfusion. He approached a Melbourne firm of ambulance chasers, Slater and Gordon, and asked them what he could do. They went to the Victorian Guardianship Board and applied to make Nidal, the husband, her guardian since she was now unconscious.

    The Guardianship Board, in an emergency sitting, accepted the application and Nidal, as her guardian, requested the hospital give her a transfusion. She was given blood, recovered and was discharged from hospital a week later. The story made front-page headlines in the Melbourne papers and was all over radio and TV because it was a perfect dilemma: a woman who had asked NOT to be given blood had been overruled by her husband and a court in a decision that had apparently saved her life. What would she say when she woke up?

    The couple retreated into silence and I have no idea what the fallout was. Would the husband have gotten into trouble with his congregation? Had he brought the org into disrepute? (Are they still Witnesses?)

    Within a short time the Qumsiehs had lodged a case with the Supreme Court of Victoria to have it rule that the Guardianship Board's decision had been illegal. It wouldn't have done the family any good, but it would make it clearer for JWs in future similar cases. Maybe it would get Nidal off the hook in a judicial committee hearing. The Supreme Court rejected the application, deciding that the Guardianship Board had to make a decision based on the information it had on the night and had done the best it could.

    In September 1998 the Qumsiehs appealed that Supreme Court decision in the Court of Appeal of Victoria. In a 3-0 decision the Court of Appeal dismissed the application. In October 1999 they appealed that decision to the High Court and lost again and this time were ordered to pay costs to the hospital.

    At the Supreme Court the couple were represented by Vin Toole and a JW lawyer called WP Cathcart, who shows up on Google searches defending Witnesses all over the world. At the High Court they were represented by a female Queens Counsel called Crennan, possibly Susan Crennan. So a few questions are in order:

    • How much would all those cases cost to run?
    • How much were the Qumsiehs required to pay in legal costs to the hospital for their High Court case?
    • Could a young electrician afford to run those cases on his own?
    • If not, how much of their costs were covered by the donations generously supplied by JWs?
    • Are WP Cathcart's fees paid for by the Witnesses or is he just a drone who gets credits for his monthly field service report by defending the truth in court?
    • How many cases do the JWs take to the Supreme Court and High Court?

    The documents for the Qumsieh case are at the Austlii website: search for the name Qumsieh and just for fun, search for Toole's name and you can see a few other cases good ol' Vin has run on behalf of the Witnesses.

    I swear that dude is leadership material. All he needs to do is start nibbling the wafers and he'll be on the reserves list when the next GB member falls off the perch.

  • Broken Promises
    Broken Promises
    I swear that dude is leadership material. All he needs to do is start nibbling the wafers and he'll be on the reserves list when the next GB member falls off the perch.

    LOL!!!

  • Aussie Oz
    Aussie Oz

    Also, when you start doing searches of the australian courts one also finds an enormous number of cases where illegal immigrants are claiming to be JWs or bible studies etc of and try to get to stay...

    sorry, a bit off topic!

    Back on topic, seeing that Vin Toole has a solictors companyi wouldn't be surprised to find the poor jws getting a bill. The WT does nothing for free.

    oz

  • wha happened?
    wha happened?

    This was a major point with my wife and I. I had told her that the WT needs to be more honest in the amount of money it's blowing on court costs and losses. There is donation money paying for this stuff. That's whe I basically told my wife not to make another donation, as long as they continue to waste money in the court system and pay to protect pedophiles.

  • wha happened?
    wha happened?

    Another thought. How can the husband sue for his wife receiving a transfusion if he was involved in the decision to do so?

  • MrMonroe
    MrMonroe

    wha happened: At the Supreme Court challenge he (or the WTS) presented expert medical advice that his wife's condition wasn't as bad as he'd been told and also that evidence had been withheld from the Guardianship Board that showed that his wife had signed the No Blood card. Notwithstanding the fact that it as he who had approached the lawyers in the first place, he put it to the court that he had been intimidated and pressured by the hosoital into doing what he did.

    As opposed to other patients who are pressured by the WTS Hospital Liaison Committees to refuse blood.

    The Supreme Couirt, as I mentioned, decided the Guardianship Board hadn't erred, but had simply made the best decision based on the evidence it had before it in what it believed was a llife-threatening situation.

    I remain intrigued by what they think now: Do they still regret taking that action to save her life? Are they still Witnesses?

  • Broken Promises
    Broken Promises

    There is a Sherin Qumsieh on facebook

    https://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=713910504

    Befriend her and ask her!

  • sir82
    sir82

    How much of JWs donations are spent on legal challenges?

    That's actually a very interesting question.

    A lot of us think "Oh, JW's have a team of in house lawyers who are Bethelites and work for free".

    But in the US, an attorney has to be licensed to practice law in the state the court case takes place in. The WTS doesn't have 50+ Bethelite lawyers, one or more for each state.

    They hire lawyers in the state wherever the case they are to be defended takes place. As often as possible they hire JWs who happen to be lawyers. Those JW lawyers are paid their usual rates (hey, they're lawyers first).

    You may or may not be aware of this , but lawyers fees can be a bit pricey.

    I'm sure the WTS legal fees run into the 10's of thousands per month, maybe even more, just in the US.

    Likely it's millions per year, worldwide.

    Hey folks, don't forget to contribute to the "worldwide legal defense fund work"! Swipe yer Visa fer Jehovah!

  • agonus
    agonus

    "Toole"... what an appropriate last name...

  • Broken Promises
    Broken Promises

    "Toole"... what an appropriate last name...

    I know, I have a silent giggle whenever I see his name.

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