Need help to reason with a JW regarding Jesus TRUE Congregation!

by TimothyT 6 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • TimothyT

    Please be patient with me on this thread. Im going to try to explain all of this to a JW sister who believes salvation is ONLY within the organisation. If you have any thoughts and suggestions id most appreciate it.

    As I was growing up as a JW, i refused to believe straight from the beginning that you had to be a JW to be saved. When JW's would say it, i would cringe and think about scriptures such as John 3:16 which say that ALL those putting faith in Jesus will be saved. I then think of the dreaded illustration a number have given to me when i had doubt about the organisation: There was only one ark! There is only one organisation Jehovah is using today too and you need to be in it to be saved. But I thought John said that all you needed to do to be saved was to exercise faith in Jesus? Ok... replace the word with organisation with congregation and yes, i agree with you. Let me explain why. I researched all of this yesterday after thoroughly reading Ephesians and to me, it makes logical sense.

    In Ephesians 3:6, Paul reveals Gods plan or his secret which is that Jesus Christ had given himself up as a sacrifice so that those believing in him could all be a part of HIS body or HIS congregation (See Ephesians 1:22-23). Context is very important regarding the next few verses. Paul wrote this letter to remind the Ephesians of this plan and to make sure they understood that the gentiles and Jews were totally equal to each other in Jesus eyes. Neither was better than the other but they were regarded exactly the same as long as they believed in Christ. In Ephesians 4, Paul encourages them to be united in their belief in Jesus. He encouraged them to do this in Ephesians 4:2, asking them to be humble, gentle, patient with each other, but most importantly to show love to one another. In verse 3 he encourages them to be united in the spirit.

    In the next few verses, Paul shows the Ephesians that unity is VERY important. He explains how God is also keen on unity. We read in verse 4-6: there is one body (The congregation which is Jesus’ body), one spirit, one hope (see Ephesians 2:13), one Lord (Jesus who is head of the congregation), one faith, one baptism and one God. Paul was giving this council because he wanted to remind the Christian gentiles and the Christian Jews that it didn’t matter who they are, but they would be united if they believed and put faith in Jesus Christ who was the head.

    Now, I will try to make sense of it. If there is ONE body which is Jesus congregation, then what are all those other congregations and churches that men have set up? I think I know the answer… they are simply catalysts to help us be a part of Jesus’ congregation. They are not trying to claim that they are the TRUE congregation. If you have faith in Jesus sacrifice and make for peace and unity then I see no reason why you cant be a part of that congregation. I believe that it makes NO DIFFERENCE who you are or what denomination you belong to (even JW) as long as you PERSONALLY are a good Christian, are making for peace and unity and are putting faith in Jesus.

    I don’t see how one religion can say that it is the truth and it is the only means of salvation because that is not what the bible teaches.

    Thanks for reading, if you have any suggestions please help me along.

    Timmy xxx

  • leavingwt

    Discussing doctrine with JWs is pointless. Even if you convince her, where else could she go?

    Hassan's first book will explain the details.

    If you do have this discussion, prepare to see just how real and alive Thought Reform really is.

  • punkofnice

    Playing Devil's Avocado I'd say best of luck with that one. It depends how open minded she is.

    In my experience, no matter how compelling the evidence, no matter how logical the explanation the JW will switch off and default to 'Obey the GB' mode.

    My first step with a JW I spoke to was the cliche 'Where else will you go?'

    Get them to accept it's a scripture taken out of context and Peter was referring to going to 'JESUS' rather than 7 men in Brooklyn and you're nearly there! John 6:68

    ..................hasn't worked for me yet! The JWs go around in circles and do mental gymnastics to OBEY THE GB!! (..or god will lovingly murder them SOON!!)

    I've told Mrs P without success when she' tried to lampoon the Church I go to: 'It's our individual relationship with God that matters not our relationship with any organization!'

      John 10:9 "I am the door; whoever enters through me will be saved, and he will go in and out and find pasturage."

      Acts 4:12 "Furthermore, there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved."

      Acts 16:31 "Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will get saved, you and your household"

      2 Timothy 2:10 "that they too may obtain the salvation that is in union with Christ Jesus along with everlasting glory."
      • Matthew 18:20 "Where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst!"
  • ThomasCovenant

    The Watchtower 1st March 1953 page 143 paragraph 12 says

    ''Ask yourself now, Did Christ Jesus, who set our example and told us to follow his example to gain life, join any church organization in his day? No, God does not require us to do that; but he requires us to worship him, to preach the good news of the Kingdom, to be Christians, to follow the example Jesus set, living in unalterable devotion to Jehovah God; to praise God and respect his supremacy, to resist all efforts to turn us from decency and to endure in faith. We have the Bible to show us the right way. Certainly it is not necessary for a person to become a member of a church to gain everlasting life''

  • Pams girl
    Pams girl

    Timmy, I was just going to point you towards Thomas Covenants post on another thread...and hes kindly reposted it here. It says it all.

    Paula x

  • TimothyT

    Thanks Punk... i want to read the entire New Testament again and compile a list of ALL scriptures which say that Jesus is the only means of salvation. Thanks for adding some to my list. :)

    ThomasCovenant... WOW... what a find. Copy and paste... CHEERS!!! :D

  • Greybeard

    I think you are on the right track Timothy. I am glad to see you still believe in the Bible. As far as sharing your views with JW's, I agree with what others have said here. It will not be easy. It seems to me that some people need a legalistic religion with men telling them what to do. Because they have been taught to read the Watchtower more than the Bible they hardly do read the Bible. If they did, asking for Holy Spirit, it is likely they would soon be asking questions that the WT has no answer for. I was a hard core JW all of my life. There is no way I would have listened to "apostate" words for a second. however, for a long time I prayed for God to not let me be blind. It really bothered me that all these people who were not JW's were going to be destroyed for not "seeing the truth" of the Watchtower. That is about 5 or 6 billion people who would die because they are not Jehovah's Witnesses. If that doesn't bother a JW than they probably will NEVER see the light IMO.

    I thought to myself, if I wasn't a JW I would probably never become one based on all the wrong predictions including the generation change. I had these thoughts as a full believing JW. So I prayed for help and I asked Jehovah/YHWH to not let me be blind. It wasn't long after that I found myself disfellowshipped and wrongly so IMO. That was a earth shaker for me. Now I look back on it as a answer to my prayer the way it all happened. I decided sense I wasn't a JW I would now look at everything I could on them. was at the top of my list. A "worldly" friend sent a link to it right after I was DFed. It didn't take me long after that to find out "the truth about that truth." (TTATT)

    That was a couple of years ago and my prayerful search for real truth has not stopped sense. As we know the Bible teaches us that God does not desire anyone to die... Jesus said with his father all things are possible. Jehovah can and does change hearts. Romans 11:32 tells us, "For God has locked all people in the prison of their own disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all." "That he may have mercy on them all"? Amen to that! 1 Corinthians 15:22, "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive."

    I believe as Adam and Eve chose to eat from the "Tree of Knowledge of good and Evil", we all are still eating of that tree. We are learning God and Evil in this life. Wether you believe in God or not, you are still learning good and bad. It serves Gods purpose to let us learn in this life what it is like to be without him. If God can create LIFE, something NO MAN can do, surly he can resurrect LIFE and all those who have ever died on this planet. The space in the universe is without limit as well as Gods power.

    I believe that EVERY knee will bend before Christ Jesus/Yeshua in every nation. I believe God will still show mercy on the nation of Israel and I think that could happen soon. I do not believe there is any Church on this planet that teaches 100% truth. Jesus is the Way, Truth and the Life. He is the only door to the Father and no man. The JW's make a mockery out of rejecting the wine and the bread at the "memorial". That was a command from Christ for all of his followers to take part of and their were no "observers".

    I highly recommend that every X-JW read the PDF found on this web site and watch the videos: This web site shows how the Bible holds out hope for ALL of mankind. This view or belief was an answer to my prayer. I have nothing to do with this web site but I do see things this way. I lean towards universal salvation through Christ Jesus. This PDF or book tells why.

    I also write for and agree with most written on that site.

    Take care my brother,


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