What's wrong with this quote?

by TD 9 Replies latest jw friends

  • TD
    TD

    A few weeks ago, J.R. Brown, director of the Office of Public Information of Jehovah’s Witnesses was interviewed on KTAR, a Phoenix area radio station. After listening to an audio tape of the interview given to me by a friend in the area, I thought some of you might find the following example of Brown’s forthrightness interesting.

    McMahon: We’re looking at the Jehovah’s Witnesses, uh with the help of its national spokesperson J. R. Brown, ah, the Jehovah’s Witness office, the director of offices--- the Office of Public Information in Brooklyn, New York and there’s so many things to talk about particularly clearing up some areas of confusion, uh curiosity. For example, the Jehovah’s Witness position on transfusion, I never did understand that.

    Brown: Well, that’s something that many may not understand, but it’s a personal conviction that we have and it has biblical support in that the Bible makes very clear that, uh God’s law regarding blood, uh, that blood removed from, uh the body is to be poured out or disposed of. Now that’s something that goes all the way back to where Noah and his family came out of the Ark. Genesis chapter seven there God allows them to eat uh the vegetation and he says they could then eat the animals, but He specified right then, only do not eat its soul, its blood it was restricted. Later when He developed the relation with the nation of Israel, He repeated this that they could eat the, ah animals but animals had to be drained of ah their blood. Later in Christian time in the book of Acts when it came up whether this was something uh Christians would continue to follow, there in chapter fifteen it says do not eat the blood.

    McMahon: But what about my baby who has, uh a serious medical problem and the doctor says the only way that we can save him is with a transfusion?

    Brown: Well, that does not hold up under uhhhh examination. All the doctors may say that, but you see we have found doctors willing to do surgery using alternatives to blood transfusion. Uhh that’s confirmed here and in other parts of, ah the world, we’ve published information on it, we have a current series of three videos that ah, wuh, has a number of doctors they go on record that they do bloodless surgery. So we can be accommodated. So we do not feel well here you’ re giving up your life or that of your child if you do not take blood transfusions. There are alternatives and there are many doctors during these surgical procedures without blood. We have a number of bloodless centers right in this country though Jehovah’s Witnesses know where their religious wishes will be respected. And Pat, I want to emphasize that. Our objection is not medical and all the other areas. Our objection to blood is scriptural, it’s a religious conviction, we follow what those scriptures say on not eating blood.

    The non-medical audience at this point has been very much misled.

    Can anyone spot how it was done?

  • fodeja
    fodeja
    Can anyone spot how it was done?

    I guess what you're trying to say is that "bloodless surgery" is something altogether different than a situation where massive blood loss has already happened (e.g., in an accident).

    At least that's my problem with the Watchtower blood propaganda. It simply ignores this aspect completely.

    f.

    (typo edited)

  • Moxy
    Moxy

    my guess would be you're refering to his insistence on 'pouring out blood' when in fact recent changes on blood fractions require that the WT actually not support a pouring out of blood at all.

    i think its also interesting that, as the PR man, virtually the first words out of his mouth in relation to blood is that it is a 'personal conviction' - as opposed to a doctrine.

    mox

  • Doc_jedd
    Doc_jedd

    Transfusing blood is not eating blood (simple)........Jedd

  • picosito
    picosito

    Yeah, it's a Personal Conviction they force upon you and you accept it as your own Personal Conviction or else.

  • Bang
    Bang

    The blood rule?

    HAVE ONLY JESUS' SOUL (blood) running through you. EAT HIS BLOOD.
    DON'T "EAT" (take in, take on etc.) someone ELSE's.

    OTHER THAN CHRIST, DON'T HAVE SOMEONE ELSE'S LIFE RUNNING THROUGH YOUR HEART. BE YOURSELF WITH GOD.
    Let YOUR yes be yes and YOUR no be no.

    It can make your 'blood' boil, can't it.

    Scatter them.

  • ofcmad
    ofcmad
    Well, that does not hold up under uhhhh examination.

    I was reading this for statement content anlaysis. My conclusion is that the reason for the pause in this statement is due to him causing deception.

    All the doctors may say that, but you see we have found doctors willing to do surgery using alternatives to blood transfusion.
    If ALL the doctors say that the child will die from lack of blood, then there couldn't ANY doctor's that could keep the child alive without a blood tranfusion.
  • TD
    TD

    Fodeja, Moxy, Doc_jedd, picosito ofcmad:

    You’re all correct. Brown’s ability to lie on so many fronts simultaneously is probably why he has been given the job of Chief Propagandist.

    Brown (rather successfully) attempted to reduce the general question of a “serious medical problem” requiring blood to the specific issue of the administration of red cells in scheduled surgery. This ignores not only the fact that as fodeja points out, the available options can be drastically reduced in emergency surgery, but that there are many other medical uses of blood that don’t directly pertain to surgery at all.

    What, for example if the “serious medical problem” requiring blood had been an atypical bleeding disorder for which no factor specific concentrate was available? What if it had been thrombocytopenia from a known cause? (e.g. chemotherapy, unusual drug reaction) What if the child had leukemia? What if the child was the donor twin in an acute case of twin to twin transfusion syndrome? These type of scenarios go on and on.

    Doc_jedd notices Brown’s pretense that the consumption of blood and the transfusion of blood are in some way physically or morally equivalent, but in typical JW fashion, Brown does not offer a shred of proof for this ridiculous stance.

    Also in typical JW fashion, Brown attempts to insert an extra step involving the use and handling of blood into the Biblical directives regarding the eating of animal flesh. He states:

    ….blood removed from, uh the body is to be poured out or disposed of….
    However the Bible at no point says that, “blood removed from the body must be poured out”, it says that “blood must be removed from the body by being poured out.” Brown’s subtle manipulation serves one and only one purpose, and that is to shift the focus of scriptures regarding the slaughtering of an animal for food from that of the animal to the blood itself so that they become directives regarding the proper use and handling of blood. In reality the blood of a slaughtered animal is not used or handled at all, you stand back from the carcass as the blood drains.

    Brown subsequently gets a convenient attack of amnesia and as Moxy points out, forgets that the accommodation of the Witness patient frequently does involve the storage of blood in some way, either in the fractionation and processing of blood based preparations, or surgical procedures involving the storage and handling of blood (e.g. blood salvage apparatus, isovolemic hemodilution)

    Brown also insinuates that the decision to adhere to the blood doctrine is a personal choice that each Jehovah’s Witness has made out of their own personal convictions, when as picosito notes, the reality is that the who mess has by degrees been forced upon the Witness community.

    I agree with you, ofcmad. Brown hesitated slightly before the more obvious attempts at misdirection.

    Tom

  • ros
    ros

    The thing that stuck out for me was the inference that the doctors are lying to you if they insist you need a transfusion. There are alternatives. Your life need not be in danger if you know the right doctors--like JWs do--who will treat you without blood. He actually said they don't look upon it as life-threatening.

    Ros
    "A religion that teaches lies cannot be true"--The Watchtower, 12/1/91 pg. 7

  • dungbeetle
    dungbeetle

    two things bother me.

    1) First in support of an individual JW's personal stance (I don't give a rat's behind about the Watchtower's stance) many many times I have stood there, in a hospital, and seen patients told they need blood transufions and they are being absolutely and positively lied to. It's why I went into private duty, because I can't stand to see that or to be part of it. I wouldn't have kept my job very long any way. I have rarely seen blood given for life-saving reasons in and of itself. You hear about the massive blood loss and the chemotherapy patients, but that's nothing compared to all the blood I see doled out to patients; many of them are not even giving real 'informed consent.' Lee Elder said 'they' are trying to cut down on needless blood transfusions, and while there may be some who are publicly advocating this, I can tell you they have hardly scratched the surface in many places. Unfortunately, medical facilites are allowed to give blood transfusions as a form of 'defensive medicine; these transfusions have nothing to do with the wellfare of the patient. I know what I see.

    2) The second thing that bothers me is the statemnt about "well, there are these bloodless procedures and surgeries and videos" and yadadada". Okay, What the hell good do these procedures, doctors, videos, etc do to some JW child in an emergency situation in friggin' AFGHANISTAN, SOUTH AFRICA, PERUVIAN MOUNTAINS or wherever else JW's decide to be. These things are useless to these people if they are not AVAILABLE!!!! Like in MOST parts of the WORLD where JW's are experiencing the GREATEST INCREASE!!!! HELLLOOOOO!!!! J. R. Brown consistently refuses to address this issue publicly.

    And may I add my agreement to what the former posters have said.

    BITE ME WATCHTOWER!!!!!

    In 1975 a crack team of publishers was sentenced to death by a judicial commiteee. They promptly escaped from the cult and now live life on the run. If you have a problem ... and if you can find them ... maybe you can contact the A--postate Team"

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