Kingdom Hall Observations

by howdidtihappen 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  howdidtihappen

  I've done a thread on this before, but I've made new observations at the hall (trust me, i just go now for entertainment value and baptism has been put off until forever) thus have new questions I want to ask the "great crowd" here. I might be imagining it because I've become so skeptical of Jehovah's witness behavior, but when I ask them certain things, they shut down as if I'm heavily criticizing or they imply that only "spiritually up building things" should be spoken about. It's bizarre. Anyway...
  
  
  - A servant or whoever organizes seating was hell bent on me not sitting at the back. I told him "why would i want the front, it's not a concert." (he didn't see the humor) He said they were reserved but didn't say for who. I'm more comfortable at the back, (close to bathroom and exit.) but he wasn't straight forward with me about WHY I couldn't sit there. I didn't win.
  
  
  - I was wearing a skirt to just above the knee, but I was also wearing boots up to the knee, so my knees weren't showing. 2 elders on their way to the stage made a point to look. Are they just perverts or am I breaking some rule I don't know about?
  
  
  - Before the meeting i was talking to a girl who said her husband was in the car park taking off his bow tie. "WHY?" I said. She said it could upset someone and "sometimes the elders pull us back a bit about that stuff." WTF?
  
  
  - What's the deal with the high heels?! I was wearing flats and felt pretty out of place. It's like every woman in there except the elderly had a 4 inch or above heel on that they couldn't walk properly in. Don't get me started on the makeup... 

  -Is the main enemy of this religion the Catholic church? Because they were brought up in a negative light all throughout the talk. Jehovah's witnesses don't get a mention in a catholic church, they're not even acknowledged as a religion. A destructive sect, yes. Oh, i sorta got schooled on not saying "church." "I thought you were a witness until you said church *fake smile*." Whats wrong with that word?

  - Not a question, but open to discussion. I got absolutely NO feeling from it. The songs were so dreary, and the talk on the platform was depressing (closing line: "Armageddon is imminent friends,be certain you've done enough to qualify for Jehovah God's new cleansed earth." APPLAUSE.) I didn't stay for the Wacktower session.
• 

  Shador

  - A servant or whoever organizes seating was hell bent on me not sitting at the back. I told him "why would i want the front, it's not a concert." (he didn't see the humor) He said they were reserved but didn't say for who. I'm more comfortable at the back, (close to bathroom and exit.) but he wasn't straight forward with me about WHY I couldn't sit there. I didn't win.

  Never heard of this. It's usually encouraged to leave back seats for latecomers or parents with young children, but I never heard of it being enforced like that. Sounds like someone with a big head.

  - I was wearing a skirt to just above the knee, but I was also wearing boots up to the knee, so my knees weren't showing. 2 elders on their way to the stage made a point to look. Are they just perverts or am I breaking some rule I don't know about?

  Yes they quite likely were perverts. Wouldn't surprise me. Skirts above the knee are frowned on, however.

  - Before the meeting i was talking to a girl who said her husband was in the car park taking off his bow tie. "WHY?" I said. She said it could upset someone and "sometimes the elders pull us back a bit about that stuff." WTF?

  Elders following the lead of the FDS and making up rules. I have seen brothers giving parts on District Conventions wearing bow ties. Not forbidden.

  - What's the deal with the high heels?! I was wearing flats and felt pretty out of place. It's like every woman in there except the elderly had a 4 inch or above heel on that they couldn't walk properly in. Don't get me started on the makeup...

  Probably just personal taste there. Meh.

  -Is the main enemy of this religion the Catholic church? Because they were brought up in a negative light all throughout the talk. Jehovah's witnesses don't get a mention in a catholic church, they're not even acknowledged as a religion. A destructive sect, yes. Oh, i sorta got schooled on not saying "church." "I thought you were a witness until you said church *fake smile*." Whats wrong with that word?

  Someone once told me that a lot JWs (at least in North & especially in South America) are ex-Catholics. To be fair, the Catholic church has strayed pretty far from the simple gospel of Christ. Veneration of saints, the lavish lifestyle of the Pope, etc. They make themselves a pretty big target, and a number of Fundementalist groups (not just JWs) don't consider them "truely" Christian. While I remain "officially" a JW, I privately consider myself pagan, so I have no horse in that race.

  As for "church", JWs don't use that term. For the building, they call it a "Kingdom Hall". The group of people is called a "congregation". So, yea, using the word "church" to refer to anything JW related marks you as an outsider.

  - Not a question, but open to discussion. I got absolutely NO feeling from it. The songs were so dreary, and the talk on the platform was depressing (closing line: "Armageddon is imminent friends,be certain you've done enough to qualify for Jehovah God's new cleansed earth." APPLAUSE.)

  Replacing true spirituality with empty formalism will do that.
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  Bungi Bill

  Before my first visit to a Kingdom Hall, I was left with the impression that attending a JW meeting was a mind-altering experience:

  - going by all the hype that I had heard beforehand, anyway.

  However, the reality proved to be rather more like your first experience! Then, for a long time afterwards, I thought that it must be me - that there was a point that I was somehow missing. Reality did take a long time to finally sink in.

  Bill.
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  NVR2L8

  Pet peeve for attendants...people filling the room from the back...It gives them authority to tell you to move. I conduct seminars across the land and people don't like to sit in the front row - it's that simple. The dirty looks for the short skirt...it's not only the skirt...it could be the boots, the makeup, the bow tie, the sideburns, to many earings, a tatoo perhaps...anything outside their norm...they judge everything and discuss in private how they can approach you to set you straight.
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  Mad Sweeney

  - A servant or whoever organizes seating was hell bent on me not sitting at the back. I told him "why would i want the front, it's not a concert." (he didn't see the humor) He said they were reserved but didn't say for who. I'm more comfortable at the back, (close to bathroom and exit.) but he wasn't straight forward with me about WHY I couldn't sit there. I didn't win.
  
  If that particular congregation has a family known for its unruly children and/or a number of disfellowshipped people who attend, they will be more strict about saving the back couple rows than in other congregations. It is considered 'a kindness' to allow the back row for parents with children and disfellowshipped ones - it is not an official rule from the Borg - but local bodies of elders have discretion to enforce as they see fit at least until they're overruled by a CO.
  
  
  - I was wearing a skirt to just above the knee, but I was also wearing boots up to the knee, so my knees weren't showing. 2 elders on their way to the stage made a point to look. Are they just perverts or am I breaking some rule I don't know about?

  Boots are sexy. Short skirts are sexy. JWs aren't supposed to be sexy. Everyone is too repressed to be able to deal with it.
  
  
  - Before the meeting i was talking to a girl who said her husband was in the car park taking off his bow tie. "WHY?" I said. She said it could upset someone and "sometimes the elders pull us back a bit about that stuff." WTF?
  
  I had an elder friend who always wore bow ties. It was his signature style. I am sure it inspired a lot of gossip but he was too cool to give an ish. The guy at the Hall you attended has no guts. Someone mentioned something about it - probably to his wife and not to his face - and she nagged him until he gave in. Sad that not only can't they think for themselves, they can't even dress themselves.

  - What's the deal with the high heels?! I was wearing flats and felt pretty out of place. It's like every woman in there except the elderly had a 4 inch or above heel on that they couldn't walk properly in. Don't get me started on the makeup...

  This must have been in a relatively urban/cosmopolitan area. Most places I've lived, you'd get dirty looks for wearing any heel more than an inch unless you were at an assembly/convention or a wedding. Then again, next to your boots the high heels were probably viewed as tame by the local rank and file.

  -Is the main enemy of this religion the Catholic church? Because they were brought up in a negative light all throughout the talk. Jehovah's witnesses don't get a mention in a catholic church, they're not even acknowledged as a religion. A destructive sect, yes. Oh, i sorta got schooled on not saying "church." "I thought you were a witness until you said church *fake smile*." Whats wrong with that word?

  Some of the talk outlines are decades old and the updates provided for them are minimal. In the formative years of this religion - 70-to-130 years ago - the big enemy of "truth" was "Christendom" which was headed up by the Catholic church. Although the fundie wackos in this country have grown by leaps and bounds since then while the Catholic church has been fairly moderate, the Watchtower hasn't changed their rhetoric much. Frankly, they don't have anyone at headquarters anymore with the knowledge of the outside world who could write new rhetoric for them. If you haven't been locked away in there for life (or 'serving' in some foreign land full-time) then you have no gravitas at HQ.

  As for the word "church," people they call 'true Christians' go to the Kingdom Hall. Only 'worldly' people of 'Christendom' go to church. It's loaded language. "Church" is a code word. It means "them" not "us." All cults develop an "us versus them" dichotomy in the minds of their members and have select loaded language words and phrases to indicate whether you're an 'us' or a 'them.'

  - Not a question, but open to discussion. I got absolutely NO feeling from it. The songs were so dreary, and the talk on the platform was depressing (closing line: "Armageddon is imminent friends,be certain you've done enough to qualify for Jehovah God's new cleansed earth." APPLAUSE.) I didn't stay for the Wacktower session.

  It is a negative religion with a negative message that they call 'good news.' They're too mind controlled to realize it and you can't tell them they're negative and unhappy either. It is obvious to everyone but them.
• 

  howdidtihappen

  Thanks so much all, for the clarity. Wow... it's just strange. To put it kindly.

  Bungi Bill, i know exactly what you mean. I had high expectations, not just of the service, but of the people. I KNOW no one's perfect but they put themselves above the world as far as morals and conduct go, so they've got no one to blame but themselves for the "worldly" judging them harshly. Don't tell me you're different, show me. They failed to do that. Besides, anyone who has to claim they are different, isn't. That should just be obvious.

  I thought it must be me too when people were applauding the speaker's doomsday message. Even in the bible there's a scripture about God's day being darkness, not light. It implied there was nothing to look forward to. JW's make it even more scary by saying one has to "qualify' to live and there's no way of knowing if you ARE doing enough until then! There's also a scripture about no one knowing the time and no need to speculate about it, so it made me ill to hear the speaker saying "The great tribulation could start next week, brothers." I doubt God put us here so we could spend all that time not living because there's another world on the way, even though God hasn't told us WHEN. Doesn't make any sense.

  As far as looking at women goes to see if they're dressed appropriately, what a scream. Doesn't that mean the pig is still looking? They're worse than a catholic priest who couldn't care less.

  And i think the fact they are terrified of the word "church" because it makes them a part of "Christendom" (which only they have deemed evil) really soldifies the fact they're a cult. Their own language is a big red flag.

  Totally agree that there's nothing good about the news. It was all doomsday messages and what not to do with your life. (don't listen to this music, don't see that movie, don't wear this, etc) and in the meantime sitting around all those suits and briefcases made it feel more like a sales seminar than a time to praise God. Scary! Oh and the woman in the TIGHT (though to the knee!) skirt, 5 inch leopard skin heels, lacey blouse, fake eyelashes, and rings on every finger is "humble" and unlike "the world." RIGHT!
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  Perry

  (closing line: "Armageddon is imminent friends,be certain you've done enough to qualify for Jehovah God's new cleansed earth." APPLAUSE.)

  In a cult, a person never knows how much is enough, like the speaker indicated above.

  In the New Covenant [contract], God supernaturally does it for the believer.

  This is the contract that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them. And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. - Hebrews 10:16, 17
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  EmptyInside

  Actually,the congregations around here, have signs on the back rows. They say reserved for families with small children. My hall actually blocks the back rows with chairs in front,until after the meeting has started. I sit in the last row anyway. My friend has a small son,so I sit with her. And if you come in late,they don't mind if you sit there.

  If I see a family with children come in much later,I'll move so they can sit there.
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  Band on the Run
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  Awen

  My old congregation here in Myrtle Beach, SC is very close to what the OP stated. Plenty of elders remarking about how women other than their wives dress, MS's telling people where they can and cannot sit and the oh so boring talks.

  For myself I dress how I want (I'm male) and will usually sport a small beard just to screw with the JW's there (since there is absolutely no Biblical precedent against having one). I'll sit where I want and if a MS tries to tell me otherwise I'll tell em to go piss up a rope. This isn't school and there are no assigned seats. I'll usually sit in the middle though in case people with children come in late. I won't sing the songs as they praise the GB and not God and Christ, nor do I say "amen" at the end of the prayers since they're so sanitized and usually all about boasting to God about what the WTS is doing.

  Why do I go you may ask? Simple. To encourage the disfellowshipped people. I'm also DFed and will make it a point to converse with these ones purposely and answer any questions they might have. They are often ignored by their so called friends and I make it a point to let them know that not all Christians are like that. Even as an active JW I didn't follow the shunning policy as I thought it was a bunch of nonsense. I'm accountable to God and Christ and not a group of old farts in Brooklyn who don't know their ass from ice cream.

  I also partake at the Memorial (when I could easily do it at home) just to annoy the local elders. I think it really gets them when a DFed person partakes, almost as if we know something the elders do not, like for instance we have been "forgiven" our trespass or that YHWH considers our DFed to be unjust. Our presence seems to unnerve the elders. I say "our" and "we" in the context of the anointed around the world who are DFed for speaking out against the WTS and yet still lead Christian lives despite being separated from the cult.